Fundraising Radicals [00:00:03]:
Welcome back to the Fundraising Radicals podcast.
Craig Pollard [00:01:05]:
I'm your host, Craig Hollard. Today's conversation and dose of fundraising inspiration is with Keo Souvannaphoum, who is the award winning country director in Lao for CARE International. She has also been an active and dedicated participant in the Global Radicals Fundraising Leadership Program, generously sharing her experiences with others all around the world. Now Keo is an expert with deep experience of building high impact community programs and institutional partnerships with international funders based in Europe and North America. But I'm also hoping that today she'll share more details about an incredible funding partnership that she has built over the last 3 years that began with an email inquiry and has now delivered more than $2,000,000 in funding for the Akkhar communities in Northern Lao, who are some of the most marginalized people in Southeast Asia. Anyway, now it's time to meet Keo. Welcome to the Fundraising Radicals podcast Keo Souvannaphoum. Welcome.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:02:10]:
Thank you, Craig. Thank you for having me.
Craig Pollard [00:02:13]:
Tell me who you are, where you are, what do you do?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:02:16]:
Yeah. So, currently, I'm the country director at CARE International in Laos. So I come from one of the southern province in, in, in Laos, Savannakhet. But I moved to, Vientiane capital since I was 15, so it's many years now.
Craig Pollard [00:02:34]:
Wow. Okay. And as your, your country director for the whole country program, and your fundraising, tell, tell me about your role. Tell me about the things you're
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:02:49]:
Lao operation, here. So when I say operation, the whole operation, we have 5 department. So we have finance, operation which is, human resources and administration, programs, communication, and business development. And, yes, of course, as a country director, then you also you are expect to involve in supporting all of these, departments. And my role, given that I have very strong background in programs and my personal, I I think interest in business development. So I actually spend a lot of time in working with the business development team involving fundraising and resort mobilization.
Craig Pollard [00:03:38]:
That's a lot.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:03:39]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:03:42]:
And and I guess that's your in that's the in internal side of things. And then there's all of the external work as well in terms of partnership building, leadership, I guess, advocacy conversations, beyond CARE International in Laos. It's a very diverse and and I imagine challenging role.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:04:01]:
Yes. Definitely. Because, apart externally, I enjoy network, in Lappeenr. Also, other, CSO partner, development partners, you know, donor agencies, inside the country. But at the regional level, we also collaborate with our, Asia regional management unit, you know, in Bangkok, that involve, you know, 9 other countries. And also part of our funding also involve working significantly with the care member partners across the world. So we work, significantly with the European partners. So Germany looks more of Denmark, you know, and also some of the donors, care member partners in, Australia, USA.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:04:50]:
So, yeah, around the world. So, so, basically, your energies has been, yeah, used, around the clock, I would say.
Craig Pollard [00:05:02]:
Yeah. Yeah. And so so you you mentioned all all of the different funding sort of places that fund you. Is that all government bilateral, multilateral funding that, what what proportion of your income comes from institutional donors versus other sources?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:05:23]:
At the moment, 95% of our funding is from institution donors, and I would say 60% of them are from European partners.
Craig Pollard [00:05:35]:
Okay. And and what are the challenges associated with that?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:05:40]:
I think with institution, not funding, oftentimes is very competitive. So, I think a lot of time is not only about what type of, intervention that you would do in order to, you know, what type of design you would do in order to really attract the funding. But, it's also about the quality of, delivery on the cloud that we have to do, you know, the visibility, the engagement with the donors that we need to very make in order to make sure that we create trust, and really, demonstrate to to the people that we work with, including the donors, that we are really doing the good, quality and, you know, we are accountable also to what we do. So I I don't think that being good in the competition, you know, writing good proposal will be the only thing that will help us to, you know, raise, institutional funding. It's a combination of of many many things in the team. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:06:51]:
Yeah. I mean, we talk about this on the Global Radicals program. Right? The the proposal is one part and there's so much more around the institutional funding than just writing this proposal from, as you mentioned, visibility, but also sort of the the engagement and and the relationships and and and and the partnership to sort of give you that competitive advantage in in what is an extremely competitive challenging market for funding. Are you exploring other sources of funding?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:07:26]:
So we we've been working with one foundation at the moment. It's noncompetitive funding. And interesting because we started with, with none, you know, relationship, no relationship and all. And we just got an email from a consultant who want to, you know, seek an information about one of the provinces in the north of Laos because, you know, they used to work there several years ago. So we thought, okay, you know, as part of, your responsibility, then you have to provide, you know, relevant information in order to support your can be anyone, you know, your that that might be your future partner. So what happened was we supply, many documents and relevant information. We also met a few time with the person in order to explain, you know, what happened with the project that we did in that area. And, it end up that the the consultant asked whether we would want to pilot a small project.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:08:30]:
I think it was around 69,000 US dollar for 6 months, and we say, okay. You know, why not? Because Okay. This is in line with what we are doing, anyway because it support the maternal and child health work in in the south and in the north that we work, so we did that. I think through this experience, we also want to, demonstrate the good work that we do. So we produce, very good, I would say, bush visual report, but also some video, footage, you know, that we, show to the
Craig Pollard [00:09:05]:
From from the program
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:09:07]:
From the program.
Craig Pollard [00:09:08]:
For the donor.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:09:09]:
For the donor.
Craig Pollard [00:09:09]:
No. Sorry. Where's the donors where was this donor based?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:09:13]:
In the US.
Craig Pollard [00:09:14]:
Okay. So so that person came out to visit?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:09:17]:
Not not yet.
Craig Pollard [00:09:18]:
Or was all were all your meetings online?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:09:20]:
So only meeting online and, they provided us with 69,000. But after the first highlight project, after the report and the video that they received, they also offer another 450,000 for a 3 years project. Yeah. And the 3 years project and, the donor also engage in the design and talk about, you know, their interest, what they actually saw, when they were in Lao 40 years ago, and, you know, what what they also expect to to see, as part of the support. So we actually work on the design very closely. And, fortunately, last year in the beginning of last year, 3 of the delegation came to visit Laos. So it was the 40 or 5th maybe 40 or 50, I'm not sure, 40 or 50 years, yeah, in in Laos. So it was, also a celebration.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:10:23]:
And, we are now working on a new project together on a, approximately 2,000,000 for the next 5 years. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:10:30]:
That's quite a that's an amazing journey going from a from an email to a a sort of $69,000 project. It in itself would be an incredible journey. But Yeah. But from what you're describing was the the the quality of your reporting, the, you know, the videos, the the sort of visual reporting it, and and, you know, demonstrating the impact as well, the quality of the work you do. So they that increased again to $450,000, but that was via a foundation. That was via the foundation that that Yeah. Donna was connected with. And now you have a $2,000,000 project, which is, a phenomenal from one email to that.
Craig Pollard [00:11:11]:
How long how long did that take, that journey?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:11:16]:
So around, three and a half years.
Craig Pollard [00:11:19]:
And if you could say if you could pinpoint, are there key points in that or key things that you did individually as an organization that without which that would not have happened?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:10:21]:
Well, I think, at very beginning, I thought that when you are with an organization, you have to be not only trustworthy, but you only, be, genuine, you know, in what you are doing. So you try to be also very authentic with the way you engage with the person. And I think that's also what happened, you know. I actually, you know, decided to respond to the email, you know, get in touch with the person, providing as much as spot, and information that he wanted from the beginning. And I thought, you know, this is the responsibility of a staff member and organization, but also, you know, you really also see the interest of one person who really is, passionate about helping the people that he used to see, you know, 40, 50 years ago. So, I, I, I think, we'll and then we really create that understanding and trust. Like, I also understand what, the consultant is looking for. You know, his his passion is is about, supporting the AKA community, you know, in an in the northern province.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:12:54]:
And, he keep talking about, this specific, community members and how he saw their experiences, what kind of problem that they have. And in Laos, this group is actually the most disadvantaged group, and he really want to see the difference in. And when when whenever we decide, the project together, we, often focus significantly on how we would, what other things we would do differently in order to, ensure that we do not, you know, even we reach 15 villages. But the focus is really how we're going to, support, this group differently in order to help them to to be at the different level of what they are now. So when I said, in fact, after, you know, from, 69,000 to 2,000,000, it's it's been 3 years now, but the actually happened last year when they visited. So it's, like, yeah, even close to 2 year, I would say.
Craig Pollard [00:14:06]:
Yeah. And how does that how does it feel, that sort of partnership compared to an institutional partnership? Is there a different feeling, institutional funding versus those sort of relationship partnership based?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:14:20]:
It's very different because we we are very connected with the donor. We feel like we really know, like, understand what, the donor is expected and, yeah. But when when we work with institution, no donors, and we go to the procedures, we might deal with some of the, you know, key staff member that get involved in those, you know, funding program, but, it's very different.
Craig Pollard [00:14:53]:
Do you do you feel like is I I don't know. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but is there a scent a greater sense of ownership and control from your in your perspective over this sort of partnership? Yeah.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:15:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So when it's come to working with this donor in particular, then, you know, I'm in charge. And I I feel like I, I feel like I don't want anyone to be, not not to be involved, but even, from the donor side, when, you know, I try to ship my role to be cc in some of the emails, then the donor would come back and direct the email to me and cc other, you know. So I I feel like even okay. I I try a few time to, you know, to be involved and as as a as instead of an as a lead, then as someone who, lead from behind. But, I think it reverse, many times.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:15:56]:
So now I understand that, okay, there's an expectation also from the donor side that I'm taking lead on this, Yeah. Opportunity. Yeah. So it's quite different.
Craig Pollard [00:12:53]:
Yeah. And in what other ways does having that particular partnership, did it did it change anything apart from, you know, the program side and the work that you delivered? But did it give you did it did it change CARE Lao in any way, in any other ways?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:16:26]:
I think this, relationship is very unique, and this is a very good example of one, I would say one success that we use in order to engage other staff, you know, not only myself as country director, but I see very good example for programs, business development, you know, operation communication on, like, how the, relationship and continuous engagement and, you know, the even the authentic your on TechCCC, authenticity, Really, you know, it's a very first step for you to to get to know someone, but also to really understand what kind of support that that we would be able to contribute and what what we can also bring to them also when we, you know, we are in Laos. They want to support Laos. So what why, you know, why care? You know, why, it's not even about the, you know, Yes. Of course. We we we should focus on the technical expertise, but I think, building trust and, demonstrating that, we are the one who can they can rely on is is make a difference. I think that we're also in this experience. The donor wants to do something that I think that part of the the experience they used to apply, food for work approach that was done in Laos 40 years ago, 30, 40 years ago. Why we think that it's good, but, it's not, it's no longer relevant in now.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:18:10]:
So it's not that we, you know, accept everything that, the donors want to do, but we really work together to view understanding, from what the donors want, but what also care could really bring in in order to make the difference in the community's life as we also, you know, work for a long time and the Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:18:33]:
It's it's it's not because it's not easy when when a when a donor comes in with a very clear idea of what they want and and they want and, you know, and and you have invited them into the program design, it's not easy to push back and say no. How did you balance that? How are you? Because this is a different way of designing programs as well, for this donor than, for example, an EU donor.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:19:00]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:19:00]:
So so how did you how did you balance involving the donor in the program design, and how is the design, how of your programs changed as a result of this donation?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:19:12]:
So I think when Vimi is, because it's quite special because, the donors involved in the different stages of design, giving feedback. But, from the beginning, we talk a lot about the concept. You know? We agree on the concept and what's the donor wants, what we think that we we we can do as well. And this is opportunity where we talk about, you know, when the donor really ask for specific approach that we want, we have also a different, technical, staff member who involve and talk about the issues that we are, addressing, right now. For example, you know, we were talking about 1 water source and the problem of, you know, water dry out in a year and what can be done around that. And one of the instead of focusing on supporting the community to access to more water, we talk a lot about the climate change and how it impact the, water source, but also the community's behavior behavioral practice that contribute to that. So, we also talk a lot about the changes that care made over time, around how we work with the community around behavioral change. And, I think that's re require a few conversation, but I think that's also coupled with the donor visit is help, also them to understand, yeah, further.
Craig Pollard [00:20:47]:
And and, also, I I imagine it's probably helpful for for the donor who hasn't seen it for 40, 50 years to come back and see just how much things have changed.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:20:57]:
Yes. Definitely. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:20:59]:
That must have been quite a big deal. If you're enjoying this conversation and would like to hear other global perspectives on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit sector, then please do subscribe using the links in the show notes. If you wanna find out more about our work, please do visit our website fundraisingradicals.com. Now back for the conversation. And you mentioned sort of the the climate piece as well, and I know that's an increasing part of your work. But how have you or have you sort of taken the things you've learned from this sort of found, you know, Wealthy Individual Foundation Partnership. Have you applied some of that to institutional donors, that approach?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:21:57]:
Yeah. We have we have started, very recently, not not long ago. So only, I would say, 5 or 6 months ago only. And, we started by getting to know the the donor representative who is new in the country, and it was, you know, an opportunity to get to know the person, also understand what kind of, you know, solution, or even new innovations, he wants to also bring in as as someone new in the country. So
Craig Pollard [00:22:33]:
And that's the first time you've done that. This first time you sort of proactively gone to a representative of an institutional donor and said, this is who we are. This is what we're doing. This is, what is that conversation like? What was that conversation like?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:22:49]:
So maybe, going back, one step, we said we internally at care. We have, resource mobilization strategy, and one of the action from the strategy is we have donor cultivation plans. And in that, donor cultivation, we also align our expertise, our objective, our goal to those group of donors. So we work, let's say we work a group of, 6 donor as our 1st year we call 1st year, donors group. And, the new donor that, I just talk about is also one of the 6 donors that we want to work with. So it's not about the random selection, but it's, you know, also understanding, trying on ally what we do together as an organization. So we have been working on, my coinsurance, trying to see, you know, how we can look at, microinsurance concept in Laos and who will be the partners, in in this and how we're going to look at the different angles of collaborations, funding support, and the sustainability part of it, in order to look at, you know, how microinsurance will support when farmers have, experience more risk from climate change. And in in this discussion, we have internally, we also involve the technicals, adviser who also know the donor quite quite well.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:18:10]:
There's also the business person who also involved in coordinating the whole discussion, but there are also other, CARE member partner in France and in Germany. So Germany has, relevant experience in this, and Kefran also, looking at, you know, the expertise around, private sector engagement, especially the insurance company. So we are looking at engaging the different level of people with the discussion in with the donor. So, recently, they also had an opportunity to meet with the donor representative in France as well who visits France. So Okay. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:25:14]:
It's it's it's kinda it's a lot of there's a lot of choreography there. There's a lot of, a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of internal conversations, a lot of external conversations pulling together this potential project. How do you view your chances of being successful in this?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:25:34]:
I I mean, for us, we see ourselves as a gender, you know, focused organization, and the value added that we will have is that, we will be able to support the donor to really focus on, strengthen the gender, transformative approach of the whole microinsurance scheme, our experience in working with the women, Saving Loan Associations, also working with the think part of the solution that we want to work on is to really build the capacity of of the farmer in order to engage, with the, the banking and insurance, and that's where require a lot of leaderships and, you know, negotiation skill that, definitely, many women in the area in the rural area in would need that in order to be at that level.
Craig Pollard [00:26:35]:
Yeah. I guess it takes a long time to build that trust and to have those community connections and be able to have those conversations.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:26:42]:
So I think we we we had this discussion. We think it is not going to be, you know, 5, 6 month, project concept. It might be 1 or 2 years.
Craig Pollard [00:26:53]:
Yeah.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:26:53]:
But, we I think we see some progress, but, we we need to also work on the next step of identifying the gaps and how we could really work together in order to move into the different steps.
Craig Pollard [00:27:10]:
That's a lot of resource and time and effort without any guarantee of of success. Right? Yeah. How do you make those choices about where to invest your team's time, which partnerships, which donors?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:27:29]:
I think as I mentioned that, first, we also look at our focus as well, you know, what we are good at. But, also, I think the alignments are very important to we look at, the alignments of what we do and what's the donors want to achieve as well. So I think that's that's already one chance of success, But I think it's not the only thing that it will help, but I think, I think it's, you know, ongoing engagement, but, also, it's an, also, opportunity to work with the donor on other area as well. So, even though we are talking up with this donor about microinsurance, at the same time, they're also working on, you know, they also, support other funding scheme that happened in Lao as well that was, required the involvement at some level. So in fact, our our team
Craig Pollard [00:28:31]:
Okay.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:28:32]:
Myself and my team also engage with the different yeah. There's a different opportunities, in that. I think it's also, our visibility also to demonstrate, you know, what care has been doing. And, this donor is very new for care. So I think it's a good opportunity to try to know and get to work more with, new donors. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:28:58]:
Yeah. And it sounds like you're constantly evolving your work as well, because I know we've we've talked before about your, you know, looking at UXO, unexploded ordinances within within this because which is a a gendered issue as well. And can you talk a little bit about the UXO problem in Lao and the work that you would like to do in that space?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:29:20]:
So I think as you know that the UXO, is quite, major issue in in Laos. Although, care, we we don't work directly on UXO Clearance, but a number of areas that we work is involved, you know, whether it's man maternal and child center construction or, you know, some of the, water construction. In some area, we had to do UXO clearance, before doing that, that activity.
Craig Pollard [00:29:53]:
And that's unexploded that's unexploded ordinance from the conflict in the regional conflict.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:29:59]:
But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:30:01]:
In Vietnam, the Vietnam War and
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:30:03]:
The Vietnam War.
Craig Pollard [00:30:04]:
Although it went much more broadly than Vietnam. Do you find that people are surprised that Lao is so affected by UXO? Are people surprised?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:30:14]:
Yeah. In fact, not many people know about it. I was very surprised. In fact, when I when I hear that some of the people from the US, you know, some of our team from CARE USA, Michigan, we talk about the story. And for someone who have never been to Laos, they said it was their first time to hear about this. And I was very surprised because I'm I thought that the UXO problem in Lao is so huge. So everyone should know about it. Yeah.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:30:46]:
And, we even thought that, you know, this should be one area that we could, you know, use, UXO as, you know, awareness, education for public in other country, in the US, for example, in other to get people at at fraction, to get to know more about Laos, and how we're going to use that opportunity to really, raise funding to support, you know, the people who have been affected in different ways. Yeah. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:31:19]:
Well, I mean, given that they dropped the majority of it, is there a sense of responsibility? Is there a feeling within that, the the US should be funding this work?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:31:31]:
I mean, at the moment, the funding support come from the different parts of the world, from from US, from Japan, you know, from different countries. But I think USAID also have some projects in in few, you know, provinces in in Lao in supporting this world. But I I do think that's, you know, there are still needs, to, like, really increase awareness on this because this, this issue continue to affect the daily life of the people and, you know, it's also one way also to to make people aware about the issues and how, they could provide more support, I would say. Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:32:17]:
Yeah. Now you won an award recently. Yeah. Tell me about that.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:32:26]:
So CARE has this, community of practice, institutional funding community of, practice. And, at the end of 2023, I actually did not, have organized, another award for, those involved in, you know, institutional funding, but, you know, resource mobilization. Yeah. I didn't know about it, so I didn't actually join the session, but I received a an award for it. So it's was called the standing ovation award. So, so they said that it's an, you know, an example of, someone who has, strategic, resol mobilization leadership working with, my team to identify opportunity for growth and, you know, yeah, relationships, learning learning into a long term.
Craig Pollard [00:33:28]:
Nice. Congratulations. That's fantastic. And and I guess that's sort of testament to to to your leadership in in this space within care as well, this this sort of excellence in institutional partnerships. And we we spoke a little bit about this because because you have a huge amount of drive, personal drive. You're there working incredibly hard to make these things happen, like the email that came through, for example, that resulted in this huge partnership. It is what is it do you think that that makes you successful in this? Are there are there characteristics that you see across other across care, across other fundraisers within this space that you think are are vital to to becoming successful in fundraising?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:34:17]:
I mean, I I spent quite a lot of time on working with the business development. I very passionate in, working with the design team involving I think part of it because I have a a program background, and I understand, you know, what's happening on the ground. And this is really my interest, and I spend a lot of time engaging. But I I think one of the area that I keep thinking to myself is that when you want to very establish a relationship with, you know, whether it's gonna be your donor or not, then is we'll have to be, very authentic and you, continue to really engage and and also be able to be the conversation. You know, it can be formal in informal, but, I think the relationship really comes, first even with your daughter. So your team, how you, you know, bring together your team to really support them when they need to. Like, even when they need to work on the design and even when the design, we need to engage so many different partner already. So, very helping everyone to, you know, move together.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:35:39]:
Yeah. I think that's it's also very important.
Craig Pollard [00:35:43]:
Yeah. And I and I guess trust is so important. As you said right at the start of this conversation, trust is so important. And and I guess authenticity and and those relationships are are the foundations, on on which you can build really trusting, long term, impactful partnerships with whoever, whether that is with your team, whether that is with donors. Just, just a final question, I think. You have so much on. You have so much you know, as the country director, as as all country directors do have, you know, we started the conversation with this as well, is the the the many sort of hats that you wear. What is the place of fundraising within that sort of priority list? What percentage of your time do you spend on fundraising, on building these relationships, on these partnerships?
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:36:31]:
It's significant. Maybe around, I would say, 50 to 60%. And it's not, 8 to 5 job. It's it's everywhere you go. In fact, like, for example, I will have a function on Thursday night this week, from 6 to 8 or 9. And, you know, before, I didn't enjoy this thing, like, going to function, meeting people. And, now every time I go, I feel like, oh, okay. I'm going to meet my friends, you know, and my colleagues, and I will get, so many news about about it.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:37:14]:
So yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:37:15]:
But that's really interesting. I I I love that, though. The that engagement has has changed it for you as well into something that's sort of enjoyable and and and that these sort of relationships, these funding partnerships have,
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:37:29]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:37:30]:
Have helped you to enjoy the extra work that you have to do.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:37:33]:
But before, I would have, many excuse not to go. And now even it's raining very hard. Okay. I go.
Craig Pollard [00:37:40]:
Okay. Fantastic. Keo, thank you so much for your time, this morning. Really appreciate you joining me for the, for the Fundraising Radicals podcast, and, and, and I feel there's so much in here whether it's, you know, institutional funding, whether it is authentic relationships. It's massively appreciated. So thank you so much.
Keo Souvannaphoum [00:38:01]:
Yeah. My pleasure. Thank you so much, Craig. Have a nice day.
Craig Pollard [00:38:05]:
You too. Thanks to Kayo for sharing her experiences today. Authentic relationships, that's one solid lesson to take away from today's conversation. These are the foundations of all our work, whether we're building them with the communities we serve, with the teams within our causes, or with those who are contributing funding. This authenticity also helps to manage expectations when it comes to program design. How do we engage and involve donors in this process, and how can we push back? Confident in our own expertise and the quality of a respectful and equal partnership. It was also great to hear Keo reflect on how different it feels to have full control over a funding partnership. Now I've seen this time and time again all over the world.
Craig Pollard [00:38:54]:
Funding partnerships build confidence, bring joy, and enjoyment to the fundraising and partnership building process. And to the point where Keo now even enjoys attending those out of hours events. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Please do subscribe on the platform of your choice to make sure you don't miss any new episodes of the Fundraising Radicals podcast, which will land fortnightly on the 1st and 15th of every month. If you'd like to find out more about the Fundraising Radicals and our work, or you'd like to join us for a podcast interview, please do visit our website at fundraisingradicals.com. Thanks for listening and for joining our exploration of the global funding ecosystem.
