Craig Pollard [00:01:02]:
Welcome back to the Fundraising Radicals podcast. I'm your host Craig Pollard. Today's conversation is with Mustafa N'Jie Taf who is based in the Gambia in West Africa. Taf is a successful and well known businessman who builds cities, literal cities of affordable houses in Nigeria, Sierra Leone, and the Gambia, and 6 other countries in West Africa. Now many projects that require funding in West Africa will identify Taf as a potential funder due to his regional profile here, his foundation, and his commitment to solving Africa's chronic housing shortage. As you're about to find out, Taf is full of enthusiasm and passion. He was born, raised, educated, and lives in the Gambia, and wears this lifelong connection like a badge of honor. He has his own YouTube channel and more than 50,000 followers on TikTok. I honestly don't know where this conversation will go, but no conversation with Taf is ever dull.
Craig Pollard [00:02:05]:
And I'm sure it will give us more insight into ideas of social impact and the mind and motivations of one of West Africa's most prolific donors. Welcome to the Fundraising Radicals podcast, Taf Njai.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:02:21]:
Thank you. Thank you, Craig. Thank you. It's a pleasure meeting you, although at a distance.
Craig Pollard [00:02:26]:
Tell me, where are you now?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:02:28]:
I'm currently in Banjul, the Gambia, which is in West Africa. One of the smallest countries in in Africa actually with a population of under 2,500,000 people.
Craig Pollard [00:02:41]:
And it it is sort of the further one of the furthest reaches of of West Africa. Is it ,were, were you born in in the Gambia, raised in the Gambia? Tell me about your your your life and sort of where, you know, where have you sort of, has Taf Njai been formed?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:02:56]:
Well, I, I was born in the Gambia some almost 67 years ago. So, born, raised, educated, you know, everything I've done in my life, is in the Gambia. So I'm a made in the Gambia product. That that's what I tell people. You know, quite often, when people see, successful Africans, in terms of education, they ask about, you know, where did you study? Probably the way you speak, or were you living in in in Europe or in the US or somewhere? I said, well, no. No. No. Not for me.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:03:33]:
I mean, I am a real, Gambian and African product. I've never really gone out of this country to study, although I travel now very often. You know? But, you know, I am a 100% made in the Gambia product.
Craig Pollard [00:03:50]:
That's, that's fantastic. But you now work very broadly, you know, in West Africa and beyond. Can you tell me a little bit about what you do and your work?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:04:02]:
Let me talk this is my background, Craig. I mean, I you know, when I left school, the reason why I'm very unique in the way I, I who I am, After high school, I had a deep passion for carpentry, you know, surprisingly. You know? And I was very good in carpentry at school. And I I do voice out a lot because I want the young ones to pick up skills, understanding that, you know, when you pick up skills, you can be successful, very successful, and you never go wrong. So immediately that I left school in 1975 with my O levels, you know, with a very good grade in carpentry or woodwork at the time, I was employed by the school, you know, to teach as a junior teacher. So so, you know, the break the only break I have had, you know, in my career or in my life, was from school, from 5 those days, which was in June 1975. By September 1975, I started work, and I haven't stopped since then. I've just been working.
Craig Pollard [00:05:04]:
Do you ever take holidays?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:05:06]:
Oh, that's well, I do take holidays. I mean, I have a way of how I do my holidays, but I am very relaxed, so I mean, and and especially at this age now, whilst I do a lot of big things, maybe we can talk about that later. But I I have a way of of lashing that I sleep 8 hours a day. Surprised to hear that. So yes. And, so I, I started working with international companies but having a very deep passion for working on-site. So I was trained in construction, doing everything in construction. So now, I started my business in 1990, which is about 34 years ago in in construction, you know, building for for for private homes.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:05:46]:
Then later, I, I went into developing mass housing. So I am the pioneer for private mass housing in the Gambia. So from there, I mean, I just thought, look. Gambia is too small a population for my vision. So I was targeting Nigeria for a long time. So finally, I, I went into Nigeria in 2012, which is about, 12 years ago. But, again, being very Pan African, I expanded rapidly and started registering my business. And I today, I have my business is registered in 9 African countries.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:06:22]:
But I'm very active in in 3 of them, for obvious reasons, as Nigeria because being the biggest, you know, populated African country and and half of West Africa's population, then Sierra Leone because it's English speaking and Gambia, my home. So, I, I have a vision to deliver 1,000,000 affordable homes, you know, between 2018 and 2038. That's what I do, 20 years.
Craig Pollard [00:06:52]:
Yeah. Where are you now in terms of achieving that target?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:06:56]:
Well, I think, we've developed so far over 5,000 since well, not since we started, since we got involved in this. But we have signed a public private partnership with 2 countries. Nigeria, just one state, 20 delivered 20,000.
Craig Pollard [00:07:13]:
Wow.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:07:14]:
And then, Sierra Leone, were there trying to develop 5,000. And in the Gambia also, I'm trying to develop another 5,000. But Gambia is a 100% private. I'm doing it. But both Sierra Leone and, Nigeria is a public private partnership.
Craig Pollard [00:07:33]:
It's interesting because I've seen some of your films around, around the different, sort of Taft cities that you're building. And it, it's really interesting because you're you're you're not selling homes as such. You're set you're selling a lifestyle as these sort of gated communities and, you know, you finish houses in your own style, and it's it's something, is is is that something new and, and emerging in West Africa?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:08:00]:
Yeah. I think that's me. Again, as an entrepreneur, as somebody passionate about this, talking about the lifestyle that you said is spot on. Actually, you know, I have a YouTube channel. I'm very active on social media. So, every Friday, I mean, I have, 10 to 15 minutes, video that I post on my channel, and it's called real estate lifestyle. And I I just try to sell everything within my lifestyle and and around real estate. So so, you know, most of it, you know, has got a lot of fun around it.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:08:33]:
You know? And I do it with my staff, with I mean, I can even do it with you, for example. If you traveled in, I said, okay. Well, great. Somebody who's traveled all the way from the Philippines is with me, and we're sharing a meal. You know, just just the that fun part of it. So I have a lot of followers who follow me for for the things that I do. So, yes, it's a lifestyle. It's just beyond brick and mortar and, people living you know, being sheltered.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:08:59]:
It's a whole lifestyle.
Craig Pollard [00:09:01]:
And the, and the scale the scale that you're talking about is is significant. It's massive. You know, you're building these, you know, 5000, 20000 homes that are within people's financial reach as well. These are affordable homes.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:09:15]:
Yes. Yeah. You know, Craig, the thing is, the deficit in Africa today, it's about 40 something 1000000 homes. I mean, that's a lot. I mean, 1,000,000 is just a drop in the ocean. And I talk to authorities, I speak at international events, which is about housing. I said and I always tell them that, look, we need to scale up. We need to scale up if we want to make a difference because the population growth in Africa is about 2.5%.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:09:46]:
So as humans develop, the population is increasing and the demand is increasing and the deficit is also increasing. So for me, what I think is that Africa and policy makers should look at probably, 50 on a tough night. You know, to to tag and developing something like 50,000,000. Remember, this is over a long period. So, yes. And for me, that's the way to go. We need to scale up.
Craig Pollard [00:10:13]:
And how do because that that is that is massive, a continent wide project. Who who do you need involved, and who do you need to engage to to make that vision possible?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:10:28]:
First is the state. The I mean, there must be a political will. So once you can stay on board, it's always because, you know, land issues, I guess, all over the world is a problem. Litigations, people claiming land, especially in a place like Africa. So first, you should get the government. So you're not there buying the land. The land should be contributed by government as part of their responsibility to provide housing. Then you come in from the private sector for efficiency, you know, because government cannot do all that.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:11:00]:
So that's 1. And then number 2, you need financial institutions, you know, who would offer, you know, both, you know, financing for the supply and the demand. The supply as I build, I need, you know, soft financing, so interest rates are not high. And then for those who are buying, also they need to get affordable mortgages, which you hardly find in Africa. So in short, these are 2 key partners that you need. And, obviously, then an experienced and an efficient, developer like myself. So these 3, you know, will make it work.
Craig Pollard [00:11:38]:
Yeah. And I know you, social, the entrepreneurship, young people's empowerment is something that matters a great deal to you. Where does that fit within your portfolio of work, of social impact, etcetera?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:11:54]:
First, you've seen that actually I'm engaging in affordable housing. I mean, I could have made much, much, much money if I went into commercial housing, build less, you know, and then, you know, go high end, margins are bigger. But I feel like . . .
Craig Pollard [00:12:11]:
Why did you make that choice not to go into the commercial housing, though to go into affordable housing?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:12:13]:
Because I think there's a need, and that's, that's, that's me. That's the social impact I want to create. I want to impact society positively. And there's a need. So, so my conscience doesn't allow me to be able to solve a problem like housing for certain category of society, and I focus on profit. So that that's me. That's just my conscience. I mean, I, I was, I don't think it is right.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:12:40]:
I mean, there are some other technical issues. I mean, it's easier and faster probably to build these type of house that I build than try to build a skyscraper.
Craig Pollard [00:12:48]:
Mhmm.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:12:39]:
And then, like, while doing so, I also create employment. Because on average, for each of these houses that I build, you can create about 25 direct jobs. And then indirect, maybe it's about 50 or more. So that's that's the reason. And and then again, my specialty, I want to focus on on what I love to do. I mean, putting a smile on people's face rather than trying to an address corporate Africa or the the international world of giving them a decent office, you know, or high-tech office or high-tech accommodation. I mean, a family that would have never thought that they will have a roof over their head if I, if you provide one. I mean, you're changing, you know, numbers of life.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:13:34]:
So that's my choice. And and for that reason, I am the biggest in Africa in affordable housing. I'm not sure about the migrant. The migrant is different. You know? But but Sub Saharan Africa, we are definitely the biggest. So so that is the reason why I, I am, I am involved in and, yes, as you said, I am a social entrepreneur. I mean, meaning that I work on a lot you know, with my conscience. It must be right for me.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:13:59]:
It's not all about making money. You know, you get to a point and I tell a lot of people and even these young ones that I that I try to mentor, that when you make money or when you do anything in life, you should stop and ask yourself, then what? Okay? Mustafa Taf N'Jie or Taf N'Jie, is worth X millions of dollars. So then what? Then what? I, I go like to share a meal like everybody, a portion of meal. I can only drink a certain amount of water. I can only drive 1 car at a time. I can only wear a shirt at a time. You know? I can only sleep on 1 bed at a time. You know? So so so I think for humanity and creating social impact, we need to ask ourselves questions.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:14:45]:
Then what? If if I am the richest man in certain environment or so so so then what? But that answer will come in if I say yes. But I have changed the lives of certain number of people who would have never have been in this environment. And I have now, positively impacting them by providing housing and a roof over their head.
Craig Pollard [00:15:08]:
And the employment and the entrepreneurship side of things as well. When the the core work that you're doing is about social impact, providing affordable housing, how do you view the the nonprofit sector and and and the community works? Do you engage with those that sector as well? Or is this just your focus and this is what you're doing?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:15:31]:
Not at all. I mean, what I, what I, what I have is, I have, I have a foundation that I've set up. And in my foundation, typically in Africa, when you have foundations, people look for handouts from international financing agencies or international the international donor community. And I have said to myself, no. I am gonna form my foundation. It's social, it's for charity, and I want to create an impact. So one, I chose the youth, that I'm targeting the youth. Anything to do with the youth.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:16:01]:
I'm creating better leaders for Africa tomorrow. I'm gonna engage there. And, again, using myself, you know, as a role model, they look up to me. Yes. Uncle Taf never stand abroad. He never did this. He never did this. And here he is.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:16:16]:
He's successful. So, you know and they engage with me. As you know, I'm probably I'm I'm even on TikTok. I have several followers on TikTok. So I'd communicate with them. I have over 50, 51,000 followers on TikTok. So so so now my foundation is made of of 8 different initiatives. One is I have an international conference, which is mostly held in the Gambia in December when most Gambians who are abroad do come in for different reasons.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:16:46]:
They'll see family. They come for their celebrations and so on. So this conference is called TAFCON. I mean, we've joined it now for the 6th time in a row. And, basically, we choose a topic that affects more or less everybody. And we bring the whole society together, across section of society, government, the private sector, NGOs, these youth, bring them together, we choose topics that affects them, and we just you know, create a debate around it. And, also, it's a networking, event. So people will talk to each other, those who are living in Australia will come and tell talk about their experience, learn about the Gambia, those in the US, those, you know, anywhere.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:17:29]:
So that's one. And then, number 2, I also have what I call the Taft Leadership Academy. Because sometime in, what, about 4 years ago or so, William Mahuhui is Africa's biggest YouTuber, one of the biggest YouTubers in Africa, asked me, he interviewed and asked me, If there was one thing that you would change in Africa, what would it be? And my response was leadership. But then, as I said, I always asked myself a question, then what? Okay. Here I am. I know what the problem is that if I were to change, I will change leadership. What am I doing about it? So I set up a cohort, 50 young students who were, you know, in their tertiary institutions to teach them leadership. And in leadership that I chose to to teach them, to lecture them over a year, the core is, ice fair chip.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:18:22]:
I designed 12 core values that I wanted to teach them. So I will invite eminent persons, and then we'll come in and give them a lecture for an hour, and then they will there'll be a question and answer session.
Craig Pollard [00:18:35]:
Are these African African scholars and experts?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:18:38]:
Gambians. Gambians. All who are planning to go now on Africa.
Craig Pollard [00:18:41]:
All Gambians.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:18:42]:
The Gambian is face to face.
Craig Pollard [00:18:43]:
Fantastic.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:18:43]:
So I bring them under one roof. I started with 50. In December this year, I graduated 320. So I scaled up. You know? I said, look. If you want to make a difference, the reason for that one is if I worry and care about the future, why don't I start investing in my own ways on these young leaders? So when they're in a position of leadership, I mean, they will have these core values. And very quickly, is if you want to remember is, is ICEFADE, ICEFADE, and CCHIP. Meaning I mean, this stands for I for integrity, C for commitment, E for empowerment, F for future vision, A for accountability, D for decision making, E for empathy, C for good communication, another C for commitment, H for honesty, I for innovation and P for passion.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:19:41]:
So then I certificate them and call them, give them Fellowship, so they're a Fellow. Now that's one. And then I have also the tough startups. I have I give we do a competition where we invite young entrepreneurs, you know, after filling up all the requirements, going into a competition. And the star prize is $20,000. Then the second prize is $10,000. And the third is 5,000. Then there are consolation prizes for 67 who didn't make it a $1,000 each.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:20:11]:
But what I do is I don't invest in their business. It's a grant. So seek capital for them. Take it. Go away. So maybe over the years that I you had pro produced a lot of moustifying guys. So it's it's all well structured. Then then I have the disability trust fund where I give safe capital to those who are disabled and are begging for arms.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:20:32]:
In Africa, it happens. You know? People are in the street, begging, and so on. I give us a little bit of money to try and engage in some business. And then I had the tough technical training institute, you know, because of my area, to train young ones to picking up picking up skills. I have also the tough icon celebrating those who are over the age of 70. They have worked, you know, and not recognized. And they have created an impact they've impacted society. Call them in, recognize them, you know, give them an accolade.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:21:04]:
You know? So these are the few that I do, but very well structured. I have a staff that looks after it, and it's funded from my profits. And not from my profits, really. It's from my revenue. I contribute 1% of my revenue to fund my foundation. So this is that's what I do.
Craig Pollard [00:21:23]:
Yeah. How did you design this? How did you how did you structure your giving and and and how did you because there are a lot of calls on your wealth. I I imagine you are constantly inundated with with requests for funding. How how did you decide to focus on these things?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:21:42]:
Well, as I said earlier, I, I said, look. Let me let me target the use. I cannot solve it all. I mean, at times, actually, I go out of this and, you know, do some few partnership. Good example was there is a foundation who came to me one time and said, look. We have these young patients, you know, more or less, at times, toddlers. They have an, a partnership with a Turkish group that do, hard operation on them, cardiac operations. If you don't do it, they will die.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:22:13]:
So the guy who wanted for me to fund the the local part of it, which is the visa fees, their escort, and so on. And it's, it wasn't much. So we have a partnership where I also put money in there. But mainly being futuristic. I mean, if you have your own well digging program, I'll say, well, I'm sorry. I cannot do it. I mean, this is my area. I cannot solve it all.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:22:35]:
So but, mainly, I'm I'm I'm very much, attached to the future, and that's what I believe in. That some of these things are so archaic that it's difficult to change. So I'm being futuristic thinking that, look. If we wanna change the narrative in Africa, it has to be long term. I give people a good example that if you find a tree that is growing and bent, you know, at a certain age, there's nothing you can do to it other than rather than just cut it. But if you have a seedling, where it's bending, you can stretch it, you know, give it support, and then he may be straight. So I'm I'm futuristic, and, I would love to see maybe in the next, decade or two that we have a different Africa. Even if I don't live long enough to see it, but that's my concerns.
Craig Pollard [00:23:20]:
And what are the leadership other leadership examples that you point these young people towards as as, like, fine examples of African leadership?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:23:29]:
I mean, David Cali, for example, here at home, I I I keep turning over to our control it. Now look. You you need to you need to be on time. You need to do things. Like, here you are, Craig, you are away in Australia.
Craig Pollard [00:23:41]:
New, New Zealand.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:23:42]:
In New Zealand. Wow.
Craig Pollard [00:23:43]:
Even further.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:23:44]:
How many hours away are you?
Craig Pollard [00:23:46]:
Many. Wow. 13 hours ahead of GMT.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:23:50]:
Oh my God. So you see? But here we are. We're talking to each other because we were meant to start at 7 AM my time prompt, and I need to be here. There's no excuses. So I tell the young ones that, look, you need to be punctual. I mean, that that's what it means. If you have an appointment, you're there on time. Commitment, which is also under these values.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:24:11]:
You're committed to a cause, so don't give out excuses. So so these are some of the things that I try to really put into them. Discipline, you know, to be very disciplined, you know, and and and also honesty. Honesty. And so so one of the only things that really I try to inculcate in young ones in society is the issue issue of contentment. I mean, the world, I think in general, people are not contented. You know, you oh, okay. I have wealth.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:24:39]:
But but then you have to have a limit to these things. I said this earlier.
Craig Pollard [00:24:43]:
Yeah. It's it's the word the word enough, when when is it enough? Yes. That's a question. And well, how do you define enough for you? For Taf Njai, what is enough?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:24:56]:
Okay. Enough. Okay. Let let can I take you through my my my my four quadrants of life?
Craig Pollard [00:25:02]:
Yes.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:25:02]:
I have a philosophy. Okay. All these I all these I developed when I reach close to 60. You know? I've been very philosophical. I had always wanted to retire at 60, but now I tell you I'm an active retiree. I am doing things bigger than what I was here, but it's all fun. So but but quickly, I have what I call the 4 quadrants of life. For me, life is real, r e a l.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:25:28]:
So I divide life between the ages of 0 to 80. I mean, here in Africa, 80 is an excellent age. Hardly would people pass the a on 80. I'm not sure about New Zealand or beyond. So first, the first quadrant is between 0-20, and there is what I call the reliance quadrant. That everything you do within that bracket, it within that quadrant, you rely on people to do it for you, your parents, your guardians, you know, institutions, society, government, and so on. And then the second quadrant is the quadrant of experimental. Anything that you're doing between the ages of 20-40, you're starting a business.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:26:12]:
You're being employed. You're starting a family. So so so you're executing something when you're experimenting it. Yeah. At times, you can fail or or you can succeed. How do you would you succeed in that bracket? Very few people will. Then, the 3rd quadrant, because between 40-60 is the quadrant of actualization. So that's when you make it or break it.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:26:37]:
So, there, you have been you've done something, you've made name, people know who you are. And then the final quadrant, which is between 60-80 and above, if you're lucky to live beyond 80, is the quadrant of legacy, leaving a legacy. So that's where the issue of untenable comes in. But once you're going through all this process, I also come out again with my philosophies, many philosophies, that life is more of a buffet than at an a la carte. When you go to a buffet, what do you find? You find so much food. That's what life is about. There's so much to do. But you have to be contented.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:27:18]:
You have you then you took a play you take a plate, and you take a piece of everything, and you're filled up, and you never take it home. That's it. But if it was a it was if your leg was a was a la carte, you can have it in donkey pate, take away! Well, that's not life! So your answer, the answer to your question, contentment is a mindset. I mean, if you have the money in your pocket, you can buy every shirt that is released every order day by the fashion designers, or every t shirt, or every car. But your consent should serve you right. You say, well, no. I think it's enough. You know, I've I've had enough food, you know, and that's fine.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:28:02]:
I can go home. But all those who are not contented will be bloated because they will just eat because it's just available. So that fine line is a matter of conscience, and it's different from one person to the other.
Craig Pollard [00:28:16]:
And would you describe yourself as as content?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:28:20]:
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. I am very contented. You know? I I have I have passion for some things. Like, I I love fashion.
Craig Pollard [00:28:26]:
Okay.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:28:27]:
I I love fashion. I mean, you know, again, I at my age, I'm a very I'm a very savvy at well, I love my my tech stuff, you know, like phones, taking out phones. For example, now I I have an S an S22, but recently, I've been looking at the, I think, the S24 and all the stuff that it does. Beyond my contentment and everything, that doesn't even have my phone, but I'm honestly I'm I'm being very honest with you, the next thing is I'm gonna buy it. Yeah. Yeah. I just love it's fun for me. I mean, I I bought I bought the the Pocket 3, DJI Pocket 3, you know, because I do a lot of my own videos, you know.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:29:04]:
So so that's fun for me. You know, I buy all these small techy stuff, you know, the Hova. I sold the drone Hova, because I do all my my my content. I'm a content creator, so so I love these things, you know. But in terms of being realistic, I can say, yes, I'm a contented person. I mean, I don't drive more than, I have 2 cars. I mean, I love cars also, so I, I at 60, I, I gave myself a price on buying a Mercedes G Wagon. But it's all the time part.
Craig Pollard [00:29:35]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:29:36]:
You know? Because, you know, I I'm always driving my, my Toyota Thunder. It's softer. It's nicer, whatever. So I'm not the type of person that will line up 5, 6 cars. No. You know? I'm not the type of person that no matter amount of wealth I have, I will fly a private jet. No.
Craig Pollard [00:29:54]:
Where does this come from? Where does this these values and this and and this sort of foundation, where does that come from for you?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:30:01]:
I think it comes from my page my my parents. You know, I must give it to them. My phone, my my mom who was not educated, was very, very close, close to the family, and he brought us on as a family. So we value family a lot. And my dear wife also, you know, same with I always have similar views, and she's very, very contended. And so we raise we raise our kids, our kids also are very contended within the society that we are. You will not notice that they are my my my kids, you know? So I think it's my family upbringing. My dad was a disciplinarian.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:30:36]:
I lost him at 20, but he inculcated a lot of discipline in me and my siblings. So I think that's where it came from. And then my my my concerns. And and again, that's coming from the almighty. I'm a believer. I'm a practicing Muslim. You know, that yes, above all, and God almighty who created all of us had put these things in me. So I am lucky to have been one of them.
Craig Pollard [00:31:01]:
And that and that that sounds like all all of that foundation feels like it's it's at the heart of of of everything you do. Do you look at other people who are, you know, claiming social impact and who who, you know, I I I see, you know, so called philanthropists in in, you know, North America and Europe with, you know, incredible wealth, but really sort of without that set of values. And I I worry about sort of their motivations and things. Do you look at other people and, do you have concerns about the motivations behind the the social impact that they're claiming and creating?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:31:47]:
I do, actually. I do. And and, yes, those in in the in the west and the global level, they're they're running, you know, huge conglomerates. But but first, you look at their profits and how their profits are being declared. So so so one way that I always think is that why don't you lower your prices? Then you have a direct impact on your buyers. I mean, if you are selling, manufacturing a phone, and then the phone is costing a a a $1,000, so you make 1,000,000,000 of profit out of that. And then you then turn out and give out so many millions on on on on philanthropy. So why don't you start from the very foundation that, look, I want my phones to be very affordable and accessible.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:32:28]:
So rather than go merry way around, go all the way now for make profit and give it away as part of it. And at times, there are reasons for giving out that those those those profits or being philanthropy. So why don't you make it affordable? And that's where I come from. I mean, I'm looking at my product. Mhmm. Then look, if my product is available, then I will not have to give out handouts. I don't have to be a philanthropist at a certain level. So, yes, I am concerned about about the global wealth.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:32:55]:
And, I as I said, I am more of a social entrepreneur, and I cannot understand certain things on, like, profits, profits all the time. I mean, the, could the corporate, world only focus on profit. People get fired. I mean, their families, get affected because they're laid off because some sudden benchmarks haven't been reached on on profits. And that is not right. You are denying somebody, you know, to earn a living. So why don't you leave him or there despite the fact that your profits are going down? So so so that doesn't make sense to me. I think we need to look at these from another angle.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:33:36]:
Efficiency and delivery in the corporate world, takes precedence over anything else. They will have been laid off because now you bring in technology, putting a robot there. I am 100% against this. I mean, you you lay off a 100 people and replace them with 1 robot. For me, that is insane. That is not right. You know, you might be efficient and make more profit, but you must think about the social impact that you create, that those 100 people are feeding on average. If it's in the west, maybe 200 people.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:34:10]:
But in in in Africa, in the 3rd world, you're feeding on about 10 to 15 people. So it's a 100 multiplied by 10 or 15. So for me, I don't think that is right in the in the in the in the corporate world.
Craig Pollard [00:34:24]:
If you're enjoying this conversation and would like to hear other global perspectives on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit sector, then please do subscribe using the links in the show notes. If you wanna find out more about our work, please do visit our website fundraisingradicals.com. Now, back for the conversation. So so, you know, it feels like the world at the moment is in is in a real mess.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:34:53]:
Big time.
Craig Pollard [00:34:54]:
I think in terms of the the growing growing inequality, between the people who have wealth and who don't have wealth, do you have a perspective on all of this?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:35:05]:
Yes. I do. I do. I think the the main problem in the world today, one of the main problems in the world is inequality. And let's suppose in Africa, for example, why are able-bodied young men and women jumping into kenus and going across oceans to go to Europe. And they're gonna stop them. And they know that they they have a, you know, very high chance of dying, and they will still go. They are desperate.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:35:36]:
They lack of hope. So the world needs good leadership. Take for example, the wars that are ongoing. Look at the amount of lives being lost. Look at the amount of material wealth being lost. And and and different areas, and you can name them.
Craig Pollard [00:36:00]:
But but you know that there is life being lost. There's material impact in in places like Gaza, in, in in the Ukraine. But there are also people who are benefiting and who are making a significant amount of money from these conflicts.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:36:17]:
That's why that's why that's what I'm telling you now. That's what I where where I was landing. These wars are generated to a certain extent by some people making money, you know, because all those missiles being fired, all those weapons being used are being manufactured by by, you know, by the corporate world. So so so maybe we should we should we should just blow the whistle and say, look. We're gonna stop it from source. I mean, we're not gonna make these these weapons available because you can only fight with those. Just for example, in Africa. I mean, I I wanna focus a lot in Africa.
Craig Pollard [00:36:50]:
Of course.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:36:50]:
The class, you find everywhere. Yeah. And it is still being manufactured. And they, of course, an arm and a leg. You know? And and they they they can educate, you know, I mean, quite a number of tumor. Schools. And then when the government comes in, you have people coming in to send them as much answers as possible. That is never used.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:37:09]:
Let's take, for example, the Gambia. Gambia is being surrounded by Senegal on all sides except the ocean. Why do we need an army? You know, you have an army and then you're paying lots of people and then you have weapons being stuck. You know? Recently, in Sierra Leone, there was an attempt to couldn't hire. There are treason trials ongoing. The reason being, you have an amore, which is a lotto that tells people to take it to go and, you know, assume power. But if it's not there, we have to fight with our fists, and everybody's got it.
Craig Pollard [00:37:45]:
Wow. Yeah. That's it's that's it's not a direction I was expecting this conversation to go in in terms of global conflict and but but is this about is this about that sort of power, the desire of of some people, maybe all of us to some extent, lesser or or or more to get power over other people? And and what what does your work, your social impact do to sort of shift power?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:38:15]:
You know, you know, again, Craig, I'll just grab you back to the issue of contentment, understanding what you do. A good example is, for example, myself. I mean, people do say and people believe that after wealth is power. So, you know, I get approached most of the time, oh, are you planning to go into politics? And I said, no. I am not. And some people don't believe it. I mean, for who I am, the things I do, I am an influencer today, I talk to the youth. You know, some people are convinced that whatever happened, that's where he's heading.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:38:46]:
And what I am, a different kind of fish. I am not interested in power because I'm contented with what I'm doing, and I love it. I enjoy it. So the issue about power, that's where the problem is. So people, when they have this wealth, they think to protect their wealth, they need to have power so that, you know, it wouldn't go all the way or they can continue just building it. Now on the other direction in Africa, what we've seen also, when people have power, they want to accumulate so much wealth because the power is not permanent. You know? And the political leadership in Africa, it's on a term limit now. Most countries are on term limit like do well, some western countries.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:39:25]:
And on average, it's between 4 to 5 years. So maximum, in the if they get into power, it's about 8 to 10 years. And that's very short for them. So they want to overstay. At times, it's very difficult to overstay. The the only thing that they would have, enough wealth that they would protect, you know, their legacy or or families or whatever. But at times, it's just like a kid in a candy store. They just cannot stop.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:39:54]:
And I think, scientifically, we need to assess them and understand that, look, these guys are not normal. They're I mean, that's not normality for me. So for me, I think I am a normal person that believes in them. Look. I when we have my cough coffee that everybody can afford, and I'm good. I don't have to be driving in a motorcade and being escorted and everybody stands when I come. You know? So this I'll just drive you back to contentment, understanding who you are, what your life means. You know? What do you want to get to? I mean, impact, yes.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:40:25]:
And if you enjoy it, you go to bed being a happy person. And, again, there's also variability if people don't have this. I mean, and and for me, personally, these are some of these I really enjoy, and I don't want to compromise it. I don't want to be walking around with bodyguards and, you know, a crowd and people pointing at me when I arrive. But, I want to be the the tough guy I am known for for my modesty.
Craig Pollard [00:40:50]:
So there will be no president Taf of Gambia in the future?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:40:56]:
No way. No way. I have said it publicly everywhere. I get the question every time. I mean and and people, when they listen to me all the time, oh, yeah. You're a famous person who's left. I said, no. No.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:41:07]:
No. No. No. And the thing is, being a successful entrepreneur, what I do doesn't mean that I am a good, president. I mean, that's an that's an error that we make also.
Craig Pollard [00:41:15]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:41:17]:
So so I don't this is what I know.
Craig Pollard [00:41:18]:
Of course. But this is what, you know, this is what sort of people who really want to be president also say. But I think maybe it's the it's the the modesty and it's often false modesty, I think, when they when other people deny it. But it's it's incredibly powerful coming from that sort of foundation and and those values and and not having that ambition as well. Does that sort of does that not having that ambition to to leverage the financial power you've built up into political power, does that sort of free you? Does it make you feel sort of free and content, and and does that add to your sense of contentment?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:41:55]:
Well, I'm just who I am. I mean, yeah, it's a contentment. It's what I enjoy. That's, you know, this is who I am. I am a free bird. You know? I mean, for example, if you see me going around, like, last time I was flying into into into Gambia, I flew economy. You know? And and then I I because I'm coming to Gambia, I mean, there were quite a number of people that I that I saw on board. And they looked at me, and they were as business class and city economy, they were looking at me.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:42:26]:
Ow. I'm sure in their mind, why is he sitting here? Why is he not sitting there? But, you know, honestly, great at the time, I mean, I was flying between Nigeria and and and and Gambia. It's a 3 hours flight and the fare was doubled. And I make some of these decisions. So I said, oh, okay. I get I get on board. It's it's in this empire, very narrow, narrow. Whether you are in business or in or in or in economy, it doesn't matter that much.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:42:53]:
You have a good seat on economy. It's just as good as business. I don't eat on board at that time. So all I do is just lean on my head and sleep. So I go deep into these things of value. It's not about what people think about me. You know? It's about, for me, what makes sense. So rather than pay $3,000 for a seat of 3 hours, I would rather pay $1,000, and then that 2,000, I can, like, help somebody genuine.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:43:20]:
I mean, that $2,000 makes a difference in somebody's life. It saves so many lives. And that's who I am, and that's what I think. Whatever people think, you know, so I get on board with my I carry my harborsack, you know, my small harborsack. You You know what? I I love looking young also. You know? Probably you know? So face fun for me, and then I engage whilst they were there. Some people ask for a selfie. You know, when I'm doing, you know, I I tell y'all who will see me, oh, Uncle' Taf, can we do a TikTok? Why not? What do you wanna talk about? But it only takes me one minute.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:43:52]:
And I'm great. You change people's lives. Mhmm. They feel good. At times, they tremble. They don't believe that they're talking to me. And it doesn't cost me anything, and I love it. I enjoy it.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:44:02]:
So so I think people are at our level. That's the way we should be thinking. That by shaking somebody's hands or just by bending down and talking to somebody or stopping and, you know, doing something makes a serious impact on somebody's life. Something that he will never or she will never forget in his life. But you think, I mean, wow. Why should I talk to him or whatever? You know? So so that's me. And that's who I am, and that's it. That's in French.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:44:30]:
I don't really speak French. That's life for me. That's it. Nothing more.
Craig Pollard [00:44:33]:
Of course. Does this come back, do you think, to this, you know, being just living and existing and being this, you know, Gambian, is this is this something that, you know, those who maybe travel overseas to be educated, do you is there something core to that? And and just being genuinely West African and and and not being sort of influenced from from overseas, from North America, from Europe, etcetera. Is is that part of this?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:45:04]:
Yeah. I think from Gambian, from the Gambian part of it, on on average, for example, if you were to compare a typical of Gambia and a typical Nigerian, they are different. In Gambia, we don't value wealth that much. We are very contented, you know, and, very down to earth in general. That's what ambiance are. And, we can be very, very informal. You know, very informal. I told a friend, on the same flight, when I stepped out on the stairs, obviously, everybody knows me in the Gambia.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:45:36]:
So so the young people who are standing there waiting to to to, do the work on the the aircraft, someone just shouted, You know? In Nigeria, what I've been called, sir. Hello, sir. Yeah. You know? In very formal, and they will give you all the details. But but in Gambia, we are so informal, and and and it's all out of the ignorance of giving you that title. It doesn't mean much. They just feel we're all the same. We're all part of it.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:46:07]:
Some will say, Oh, Uncle Taf. You know? But, yeah, it's him. It's him. So what? If you come and say, look. I'm I'm I'm wearing a a Rolex of this of this price. They say, oh, isn't it just a watch? It's the same as my as my watch that I wear, which I bought for £20. So so I think that's yes. As Gambians, we're in general, we're very contented and and very down to earth.
Craig Pollard [00:46:32]:
Yeah. It's I I lived in Nigeria for, for a while. I lived in the north in just outside of Kano. And having spent chunks of time in The Gambia. It's sort I I think this is also something as well that listeners beyond West Africa, the dive the sheer diversity within West Africa is just spec is spectacular, and then I think it's often underestimated from the air from the outside. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you, Taf. Thank you so much for taking the time. I've I've written down your, your your your 4 life quadrants.
Craig Pollard [00:47:07]:
And, just it's just great to just to hear your perspective and and the and the passion and the values and and how how that's driving your your work, your commercial work, and and and your social impact as well. So thank you so much for taking the time today. I really appreciate it.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:47:21]:
Thank thank you, Blake. So so tell me exactly what time what's your time there now? My mind is, a quarter to 8.
Craig Pollard [00:47:29]:
It's a quarter to 9 in the evening. Wow. So our day is done. Yours is only just beginning.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:47:35]:
That's right. And guess what I'm going to do? You know you know, I I I am going to rush I mean, there's a a a pattisserie that I love having my croissant from. So and, normally, I go back to bed at this time if I didn't do this interview. And that that's my circle. I mean, I sleep for about 5 hours.
Craig Pollard [00:47:52]:
So so you you wake up to pray?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:47:53]:
Yeah. I wake up to pray and I go back to bed, but now I've started my day and we are fired up, You know? And I would love to have a good cafe latte and, and a good croissant. So it's a it's a drive away about 15, 20 minutes. So that's where I will head. It's your day.
Craig Pollard [00:48:08]:
And the rest of your day? What what's the rest of your day looking like?
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:48:12]:
I I'm a free, but I go to office. You know? I my my kids are in the business now. They're on the show. So I just sit around and then, you know, maybe drive to site. I love going to site and seeing things that are happening. It's just loose. The worst thing for me is having an appointment with government officials. So I avoid it as much as possible.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:48:31]:
But but I don't have anything to do.
Craig Pollard [00:48:34]:
That's nice. But but the government officials having those meetings is such a a core part of what you do. Right? And it must be I imagine that's very challenging, especially if it's not your favorite thing to do.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:48:45]:
Yeah. Yeah. So my kids, they they it's their time. They they this is second quadrant now. This is them. For me, it's my, 4th and then last quadrant. This what's important is my legacy, and I do it with pleasure. And, also, with my health, I I do a lot of exercise.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:49:00]:
I live by the beach. So, maybe even around midday, I can go on the beach, walk on the beach, and, you know so nothing to keep me stressed. So I have a very, well, work life balance, and I I it's all fun. I love it. I enjoy it, man. Craig, I hope one day we'll meet up in person. You know, it's been really a pleasure, and and thank you for this. And, but God bless you.
Craig Pollard [00:49:20]:
Thank you so much, Taf. Massively appreciate it, and I hope you enjoy your croissant and your cafe latte, and have a wonderful rest of your day.
Mustafa N'Jie Taf [00:49:27]:
Thank you so much, Craig. Thank you. God bless you.
Craig Pollard [00:49:29]:
Take care. Thanks again to Taf for joining the Fundraising Radicals podcast. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I did making it. Now I'm going to share more reflections on this conversation in my blog which can be accessed via the website at fundraisingradicals.com. But just three things to take away from this episode. First, Taft's lifelong immersion in the Gambia fascinates me. It feels like a deep and authentic connection to his community and a grounding for the values that underpin his business choices. Second, that the accumulation of wealth does not have to be separate from social impact.
Craig Pollard [00:50:09]:
And Taf's feels more authentic in some ways than the many Westerners who self identify as philanthropists, who have made their fortunes historically without real consideration of social justice, and then make a major philanthropy pivot in later life. And 3rd, there's this wonderful idea of finding contentment that bounds ambition and wealth and brings satisfaction. A sense of having done enough. Enough. That's another powerful word to leave you with today. Both in relation to the understanding when donors give, how much they give, but also enough in relation to the limits of our own organisation's ambitions, goals, and growth. Because if our leaders can't define what enough impact is, then fundraisers will always be catching up and burning out, which leads to a very different expression of enough. Anyway, thanks for listening and for joining our exploration of the global funding ecosystem.
