Bessie Ndovi [00:00:03]:
Be realistic. Do what you can. Be credible. Be visible. Share your work. Share the successes. Share the challenges. Because I think donors or potential funders would also want to see how able are you to resolve certain challenges because you are defined by how you overcame a particular challenge.
Bessie Ndovi [00:00:26]:
Are you the type that's going to fall back down and not rise up again because you met a particular hurdle? Or are you going to find your way around it and manouvere and come back up again?
Craig Pollard [00:00:36]:
Welcome back to the Fundraising Radicals podcast. I'm your host Craig Pollard. That was Bessie Ndovi. Bessie is one of 4 senior regional advisors from the Scaling Up Nutrition Civil Society Network. She's based in Malawi and from there is supporting civil society organisations in 15 countries across East and Southern Africa. Now, advocacy work is a really hard thing to fundraise for. It's inherently political, it's difficult to measure, it can cause friction between partners and it takes a long time to demonstrate the impact of advocacy funding which means that it stretches beyond the traditional funding horizons of most donors. But Bessie, knowing this, raised the funding to build and sustain an independent civil society organisation in Malawi that grew to 10 members of staff within 5 years. And during our conversation she shares how she did this. She sets out clear and simple steps that anyone else can follow to build trust and position for major funding partnerships.
Craig Pollard [00:01:44]:
Hi, Bessie.
Bessie Ndovi [00:01:45]:
Hi, Craig. How are you?
Craig Pollard [00:01:47]:
I'm very well, thanks. How are you?
Bessie Ndovi [00:01:49]:
I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me on your podcast today. Delighted to be here.
Craig Pollard [00:01:54]:
It's an absolute pleasure. Where are you at the moment? And tell us a little bit more about what you do and who you are.
Bessie Ndovi [00:02:01]:
My name is Bessie Ndovi. I'm a nutritionist by profession. I'm also studying for a master's in health and behavior change and communication. I'm currently based in Malawi, in Lilongwe, the capital of Malawi. I'm currently working for the, Scaling Up Nutrition Civil Society Network, under the Sun Movement. So the Sun Movement is a broader umbrella that's responsible for coordinating the implementation of nutrition across the globe. So it's got 4, 5 networks. One of which is a civil society network where I belong.
Bessie Ndovi [00:02:39]:
There, I'm working as a senior regional adviser, specifically focusing on the Eastern and Southern Africa. So I have about 17 countries that I am managing currently. Prior to that, I was the national coordinator for the Civil Society Alliance based in Malawi. We call it the Civil Society Organization Nutrition Alliance, CSONA. So I worked there for 8 years, and then eventually, I was then given the national coordinator position. So I held that position for 5 years.
Craig Pollard [00:03:10]:
And that's a that's a big role. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:03:12]:
It is a big role. Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:03:13]:
Because it that's much more than the programs. What what are the what are the responsibilities did you have within that national coordinator role?
Bessie Ndovi [00:03:19]:
So, CSONA is an advocacy based organization born out of the Sun movement. Like I mentioned that the Sun Movement has about 4, 5 networks Android. So the civil society network, the Sun Business network, the donor network, and the UN network. We also have some upcoming networks like the media network, the youth network, but these, are quite limited to select countries. So the civil society alliances are present in different countries. Right now, I think we have about 52 civil society alliances. Although the the number of countries that have joined the Sun Movements are much more than that. So we're we're still trying to lobby some more countries to join and establish a civil society alliances because their primary role is to ensure that nutrition is given the priority that it deserves.
Bessie Ndovi [00:04:07]:
So we are aware that, many governments do establish policies. But who is there to actually monitor the implementation of those policies? So that's when the civil society alliances come into play. So that was my biggest role to coordinate with other civil society alliances, both local and international NGOs to country level to ensure that together we have a united voice, and we ensure that we push government, we lobby government, and we advocate to government to ensure that nutrition is maintained as a priority.
Craig Pollard [00:04:40]:
Bessie, is that is is a big part of that, making sure that the the sort of political statements, the financial commitments to nutrition are followed through in budgets?
Bessie Ndovi [00:04:53]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. So in my time at CSONA, one of the main things I focused on as an alliance that I led was to ensure that government really walks the talk. So for example, in 2013, our then head of state committed at the Nutrition for Growth Summit to say that, she's going to ensure that the government allocates 3% of the national budget towards nutrition. But who was there to ensure the implementation of that? So that's when the civil society came in to make sure that what was promised to the government to the people of Malawi is actually realized, and we did that. So how do we do that? We're doing a lot of annual budget analysis. So analyzing what had been allocated in a particular year, and then following through the money tracking it, to see if what was allocated is actually what is being spent at national level as well as at, district level.
Bessie Ndovi [00:05:48]:
So as when the budget cycle is starting, when the parliament so when the Ministry of Finance releases the budget statements, we'll then go and analyze to see how much money has been allocated towards nutrition. And then when the implementation year, the particular financial year elapses, we'll then go back to track to see if what was allocated has actually been implemented and dispersed on time.
Craig Pollard [00:06:14]:
And, and then what happens after that? What what sort of happens once you have made that assessment in terms of the budget, the promise was kept or the promise wasn't kept? What's the next step to that?
Bessie Ndovi [00:06:26]:
Yeah. So that becomes our evidence. We take that back to the government to say, this is what you promised your people, and this is what you're doing. It it's not in line. And we have a roundtable discussion, with some we sometimes even take it to the press to say the government is not doing what it promised. We sit down with them to say, if you don't do this, this is what is going to happen. These are the levels of malnutrition currently in the districts. This is what is happening. So if you if you continue neglecting nutrition, we're going to continuously have a downtrend in terms of, malnutrition being on the rise.
Bessie Ndovi [00:07:01]:
So, unfortunately, for Malawi, it's considered to be one of the poorest countries in the world, unfortunately. I'm not proud to say that, but, unfortunately, that's how things are. And, even though we are poor, we're being faced with a triple burden of malnutrition. So we have undernourishment, we have micronutrient deficiencies, and then also we now have overnutrition. So we have increased cases of overweight and obesity, with associated noncommunicable diseases that are contributing to about about over 30% of, deaths currently. So that's really quite a high figure. And in terms of undernourishment, we have currently the the most recent data that we have, about 37% of under 5 children are stunted. And at the same time, we also have 12% of children that are underweight.
Bessie Ndovi [00:07:53]:
And, we have had some that are severely wasted. Of course, the the wasting sort of changes depending on how things are. But the recent data that we have, we had about 3% of under 5 children that were wasted. So these figures, if you convert them in terms of their nominal terms, they're quite high because it means that on average, about 4 out of every 10 children, they are stunted. 2 out of every 10 children, they are wasted. So in present day, we should not be having these, kind of alarming figures when we know that there's something that we can do about it. So that's in part some of the things I was focusing on. So I just didn't start out being an advocate.
Bessie Ndovi [00:08:37]:
I have worked for the government before. Before joining the the before joining CSONA, I worked in government, specifically the Ministry of Agriculture.
Craig Pollard [00:08:47]:
Does that help sort of having that sort of background to sort of understanding about how the mechanisms of government work and and . . .
Bessie Ndovi [00:08:55]:
It does.
Craig Pollard [00:08:56]:
And I guess incentives and what levers to pull?
Bessie Ndovi [00:09:00]:
Yes. It does. Because I think before coming into the NGO world, I had a different perspective of how things were done. And now, now that I've been an advocate for 8 plus years now, I know how things operate in government. For example, I have an in-depth understanding over the budget cycle, how it starts. So it starts with the way at the district level, and I understand how policies are made and why policies are made and who is involved in the policies. So when I say that government has no funding for nutrition, I have lived it. I used to get less than, I don't know what sort of conversion I can make, but, perhaps I can just use my local currency.
Bessie Ndovi [00:09:42]:
We may make the conversions later on.
Craig Pollard [00:09:44]:
Mhmm. Cool.
Bessie Ndovi [00:09:45]:
So in a month, yeah. I would I would be given maybe 40,000 Malawi Kwacha, which if you convert it at the bank rate of today, it's 1,800 to a dollar. So that's, like, maybe $40 roughly. Maybe $35 roughly in a month for me to implement my activities for one district that is covering that has a population of about at the time, it had a population of about 600,000 people for the district. So imagine being given $35 to reach 600,000 people per month. How do I do that? It's it's next to impossible. It was actually impossible. So
Craig Pollard [00:10:27]:
It is impossible.
Bessie Ndovi [00:10:28]:
Yes. So I I have that experience. And within government, we try to load, but you say, can we at least have an maybe let's get $100 per month. Maybe we can try to say, okay. The district was geographic, defined already, so it was divided in 10 parts. We used to call them extension planning areas. So if at at least if you're given a $100 in a month no.
Bessie Ndovi [00:10:54]:
I'm not saying it's enough, but at least you can try to say, okay. For month number 1, I'll go to area a. For month number 2, I'll go to area b, and then and so on and so forth. So by the end of the year, 12 months, you have at least gone to each area once. It's not enough, but still it's something. So maybe now that we have some technology that is kind of advanced and people have access to it, even people in the rural areas have access to some technology, Things have become a little better, not great, but a little better in terms of access to information. So extension workers in different government are now able to use those. We're also able to use, radios, but it's Malawi is different, just like other African countries.
Bessie Ndovi [00:11:48]:
We are still embracing this technology bit by bit. So we still require that physical human contact. So we still require Yeah. Higher resources going towards nutrition if we are ready to eradicate my nutrition. And the fact that we are also we also have high rates of illiterate people in the country. It really doesn't help. We really need to be there.
Craig Pollard [00:12:11]:
I guess that but that speaks to the limits of of a pure sort of technology solutions here. Right? Because I think a lot of sort of innovation in whether that's in health, whether that's in nutrition, a lot of sort of the focus is on technical innovation to do this. But it it has its limits. Yes. In places like Malawi.
Bessie Ndovi [00:12:33]:
Yeah. It does.
Craig Pollard [00:12:34]:
In terms of penetration, and just relevance.
Bessie Ndovi [00:12:37]:
Yeah. It it has a lot of limits because I did mention that we are a poor country. Despite that, we also have high levels of illiteracy. So these two don't really go hand in hand, and they don't really work to our favor. So we have challenges. Technology, yes, it's it's it's a great tool. It's quite an innovative way of trying to maneuver this money challenge, but the reality on the ground is also different.
Craig Pollard [00:13:05]:
And yeah. How do you historically resource this work? Because it's incredibly technical, data intensive, politicized work. How over the last 8, 10 years, how have you resourced this advocacy work?
Bessie Ndovi [00:13:22]:
So resourcing the organization, Sisona, that I worked for, it was not so easy. And I think I've come to realize that resource mobilisation is actually there's no one size fits all. There isn't one thing, methodology, idea that works. I think you have to be dynamic. You have to think outside the box. You have to continuously tease yourself. How do I get money? How do I convince people to give me money? So as I mentioned that I moved on from a junior position to holding a high position. So when I was taking over the mantle, we only had 1 donor at the time.
Bessie Ndovi [00:14:02]:
And, this donor was not funding our salaries 100%. And and I think that time we only had 3 people as members of staff for CSONA. And when I was leaving, I left a team of 10. Well, including myself, we were 10. So I left 9 people. So we had grown over the years. So what we did, previously, we're being hosted by Concern Worldwide. They had hosted us, I think, from 2016 to somewhere around 27, 2016 when we now started our own legal registrations because it became a little difficult for us, to raise funds using Concern's name.
Bessie Ndovi [00:14:41]:
Because Concern is a big and reputable organization, whilst it's when I was just starting out.
Craig Pollard [00:14:47]:
Yeah. Seen as, seen as wealthy and Yes. Why do you need the funding, right, if you're if you're allied to this massive global organisation?
Bessie Ndovi [00:14:55]:
Yeah. So if there's a call for, for example, a grant of $50,000, obviously, Concern could not respond such a call. It's too small for them. They can't even start. So what I did was first of all, to break
Craig Pollard [00:15:08]:
But that was massive for you.
Bessie Ndovi [00:15:09]:
It was. It was.
Craig Pollard [00:15:11]:
That would have been massive for you. $50,000.
Bessie Ndovi [00:15:14]:
Because we're using a Concern name, a big brand. It was it didn't make sense. Even the ones reviewing the proposal just go like, no. Concern can't be doing this. So what I did was to sort of break away from Concern to now become our own entities. So we, we, we rented our own space to find our own office space. We created our own email addresses because even our email addresses were concern.net, not really CSONA's. So we needed to create our own brand for people to know us, what we're doing, and had just having our own name.
Bessie Ndovi [00:15:47]:
So we broke off from Concern, but we were still within their premises. And then we started now. We were already known.
Craig Pollard [00:15:54]:
That's a that's a huge risk. It was. That's a a that's a huge step, stepping away from the safety of that.
Bessie Ndovi [00:16:02]:
Mind you, this time with this time, we only had 1 donor who was paying a percentage of our time, not 100%. And we were like, no. We need to grow. We need to build on our own. But that was a good thing that happened because at least it gave us room to grow and for stakeholders and donors to really now start recognizing us and trusting us and start to fund us. So after breaking away, we now started to, rebrand ourselves to say, okay. We are CSONA. This is what we do.
Bessie Ndovi [00:16:30]:
This is where we are. So one thing that we did was to create a a website for ourselves. So we needed to have that done so that when people search CSONA, they should be able to find it, and we're regularly updating our website, the projects that we have, the stuff that we have. Our strategic plan was there. The work that we had previously done was there. So we did that. And on top of that, I also ensured that we needed to engage our members. So we had INGOs as our members.
Bessie Ndovi [00:17:00]:
Like, for example, Concern Worldwide was our member, Save the Children was our member. Oxfam, these big INGOs. So I made sure that we needed to constantly network and engage them. If there were nutritional meetings, be there. If there were sector meetings, be there. Go to their offices, present your cases. This is CSONA. This is what we do.
Bessie Ndovi [00:17:23]:
This is what what we have achieved. So we documented. Of course, at the time, it wasn't really something that was catchy, but at least we managed to document the work that we had done previously, the successes that we had registered previously, and the challenges that we had made along the way, and how were we able to overcome those challenges. So what we really wanted to do was to build credibility and also ensure that we can be accountable if, given money. So it was a little difficult because especially on accountability because we had never handled money as CSONA before, so we had to use Concern. So because of what we were able to achieve during the time, stakeholders started trusting us, but with small amounts of money. So around the same time also, that's when, the Sun Movement also got a grant and advertised. It wasn't given to us on a silver platter, but it was advertised and open to all civil society alliances across the group.
Bessie Ndovi [00:18:24]:
So I'm talking about 52 countries.
Craig Pollard [00:18:26]:
This was the pooled fund.
Bessie Ndovi [00:18:27]:
Right? The pooled fund. Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:18:29]:
Yeah. So those small amounts you mentioned before the pooled fund, how how how much sort of were they and where did they come from, those initial donations after you'd broken away from Concern and gone out there on your own?
Bessie Ndovi [00:18:43]:
So initially, what was happening is we'd go to a particular organization. For example, I remember going to Save the Children. We saw our written up business case. Why should you fund us? What can we do with your money? So what we did was to align ourselves to the work that they were doing because it didn't make sense to go to, for example, an agriculture maybe based organization whilst we're doing health and nutrition. So we had to align ourselves to organizations that were like us, that were implementing, interventions that were fitting with what we were doing. So we had a small strategy that we wrote down to say for the next 2 years, this is what we want to focus on. We didn't want to have something 5 years because we were still very young. We had just broken away.
Bessie Ndovi [00:19:28]:
And, we just wanted to focus within a short space of time so that we are able to monitor ourselves in that time. What have we done? What have we achieved? What have we what could we have done better? So we had a small strategy, 2 years, and, a key list of activities that we were going to the stakeholders with. So I went to Save the Children, presented our case. So at that time, they were implementing, a CIFF project, Children Investment Fund Foundation project, and they allocated some small funds. I think they gave us, I think was it $20,000? 20,000 if I recall very well at the time. But most of it was direct implementation. So for example, we'll come up with we'd we had our own work plan, which they were funding directly, and a little amount going towards administration. So that was okay because for us, what we wanted was to build ourselves to to have our brand known.
Bessie Ndovi [00:20:22]:
So we also developed our social media, which we kept regularly updating and posting things. What have we done? If we're meeting with members, we'll post. If we're having a media engagement, we'll post. So we really did a lot of communication. We had, activities that were going on air, different radio stations, TV stations, would have, articles written in print, media, would have online articles being written.
Craig Pollard [00:20:50]:
This visibility is so important. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:20:52]:
Yes. Yes. You need to be visible because that's the only way people are going to know you. So you would go to have a meeting with a particular stakeholder. They just won't take your word for it, but they'll need to research you. Yeah. Who are what is CSONA? Who is CSONA? What do they do? What have they done? So if they just go into the search engine and type CSONA, and then would have a little a list of articles, things coming out, even your website there, And then they'll say, oh, yeah. These people are credible.
Craig Pollard [00:21:19]:
Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:21:20]:
So, along the way, we also managed to get in touch, and we're linked with the South African based Graca Machel Trust. So I think our, our engagement and our networking and our collaboration with the Graca Machel Trust is what really opened up the doors for us because it really gave us that push, that high profile. And we are really trusted because Yeah. Most organizations were like, if these people, and you know Graca Machel, she's very reputable. Yeah. She's been a champion in many ways.
Craig Pollard [00:21:50]:
Of course.
Bessie Ndovi [00:21:51]:
Yes. And then she is linked to a small organization like CSONA. So that really give us a big push. And, when we up updated our website to say our partners are the following. So we have Save the Children. We have Concern Worldwide. We have the Graca Machel Trust, an international organization.
Craig Pollard [00:22:10]:
Graca Machel?
Bessie Ndovi [00:22:10]:
Yeah. So Graca Machel funded us.
Craig Pollard [00:22:14]:
An African organization as well. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:22:16]:
Yes. Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:22:18]:
That must have counted for a lot.
Bessie Ndovi [00:22:20]:
Yes. It did. So another thing that we did, worked hard to do was to make sure that we had clean audit accounts. We were starting out. We were very small, and it's common knowledge most organizations make is to mismanage funds. So we didn't want that associated with our brand.
Craig Pollard [00:22:41]:
So we ensured that at least No. But it's interesting because it feels like that the the challenge is so massive to establish credibility. Right? Because it's almost as if you have to assume that people are gonna be suspicious of you Yes. As an organization fundraising in in Malawi.
Bessie Ndovi [00:23:00]:
And especially local one. Mhmm.
Craig Pollard [00:23:02]:
And and that is, I mean, I I think people in in North America and Europe take it for granted. Okay? That if you if you register as a charity, you know, people will see you and probably fund you. But you're coming the the challenge that and that initial level of suspicion that you're having to overcome, whether it's by, you know, building your brand or the transparency, the accountability, the audit, etcetera, that makes everything so much more difficult. And it's such an enormous set of barriers to overcome.
Bessie Ndovi [00:23:32]:
Yeah.
Craig Pollard [00:23:33]:
That before you even think about sort of spending the money or it's it's so massive and I think it's so often misunderstood from outside.
Bessie Ndovi [00:23:44]:
Yeah. It is. And and it's really something that most small organizations that are out there, especially for those that are starting up, you really need to put mechanisms in place to ensure that you have accountability, transparency, because we have undergone a lot of due diligence. Trust me. The process of due diligence is not an easy one, and they'll ask you for the tiniest, tiniest detail that you may not even think of. So it's really something that you need to build if you want to attract donor, if you want to maintain credibility, if you want to be sustainable, for the years to come, that's something that you need to do. And the transparency and accountability is not only for the money. I keep talking about being visible, documenting the work that you do.
Bessie Ndovi [00:24:31]:
That's really paramount. One of the donors that funded us, I think, the period between 2019 to 20, was a local, grant making foundation. And I think this foundation, we call it. So they are usually funded by international donors. I think in our time, they were being funded by, sorry, if I'm not mistaken, the EU, and, I can't remember who else. But they're being funded a big percent by EU.
Craig Pollard [00:25:01]:
And and and they're acting as a local sort of intermediary?
Bessie Ndovi [00:25:04]:
Yes. Yes. They're local grant making.
Craig Pollard [00:25:07]:
For new is it nutrition only or is it more general than nutrition?
Bessie Ndovi [00:25:10]:
So it was more general, but they were focusing more on, governance. So hours, we skewed it towards nutrition governance because we wanted to strengthen the nutrition governance structures at district level. At national level, everything was fine. But at district level, that's where things were not really going according to, the TORs that were established for the districts. So one of the things that they were doing, they were offering rather in this, partnership was, capacity building. So you needed to evaluate yourself as as an organization. Which areas do you think you're lacking? And we identified several, but they only assisted us with 2. One was, strengthening our finance systems, and the other one was knowledge management knowledge management and, and, documentation of best practices.
Bessie Ndovi [00:26:00]:
So I think this organization also really played a very big role in ensuring that, CSONA is what it is today, is actually attracting, donors. So we reached a point where we had I think there was a certain year, some 2, 3 years, we were implementing about 4 grants, from different donors. So the pool funds that I mentioned earlier on, we were funded 2 grants. So there was window 1, cycle 2, and window 2, cycle 1. We got both grants. I think mainly because of the work that we had previously done.
Craig Pollard [00:26:36]:
But this is interesting because all of the work that you've done beforehand, all of that diligence, all of that preparation sort of perfectly positioned you to be an easy yes for the sort of you know, as it's almost as if, you know, the writing a proposal is one part of it. But Yes. All of this vast amount of work and the diligence and the and and the detailed focus . . .
Bessie Ndovi [00:27:01]:
Yes.
Craig Pollard [00:27:01]:
that, that created an organization that is much easier to fund, frankly.
Bessie Ndovi [00:27:06]:
Mhmm.
Craig Pollard [00:27:06]:
Than and also but also your willingness and your positioning in terms of your priorities and alignment with donor priorities as well must have made you an easy . . .
Bessie Ndovi [00:27:16]:
And country priorities as well.
Craig Pollard [00:27:18]:
Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And and just make made you a much sort of easier partner. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:27:23]:
It did sort of. Because, before just before I left, I think the first half of twenty twenty three, I had 2 organizations approaching us. Not not me and not Sisone approaching them, but the organizations approaching us to say, we have secured ABC grant, and we feel you are the right partner, that you can assist us in the implementation. So we had Welthungerhilfe, WHH, a German based organization
Craig Pollard [00:27:50]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:27:51]:
Approached us. So they asked us to develop concept note based on what so they had already won the grant, but they were not looking for a partner to co implement. So they requested us.
Bessie Ndovi [00:28:01]:
They gave us their proposal. This this is the proposal that we have submitted to BNZ. And, can you come up with a concept from this? What can you implement? So we had we had,
Craig Pollard [00:28:14]:
Oh, the the joys of funding, right? It's how these things actually work in reality. It's so so backwards to what a lot of other people think.
Bessie Ndovi [00:28:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. So they really just came to us and say, can you write a a concept from which you have to develop a proposal and a work plan and a budget, and then let's discuss further. So this came from the facts that we had previously been engaging them and regularly updating them with what we're doing and also updating our social media and our general media presence and our website. The one thing that they really liked and they told us in one of our meetings was that as small as you are not so small now, but as small as you are, you are able to keep your website updated. Because we went to your website, and we have seen what you've done in the past. We have seen what you're currently doing, and it really matches with what you are telling us in this meeting. And then we also had, concern right, who came to us to say, we have won this Irish aid, funded project for 5 years.
Bessie Ndovi [00:29:14]:
We'd like to partner with you. Initially, we'd give you a 1 year contract. Actually, no. It was 3 months from, I think, August 2023 to December. And then that's it. They would they would extend it because the year had already was already ending, and then they would extend it into 2024. So these are just some of the examples that of stakeholders that came to us and requested for partnership. Of course, it's never really easy, and it's never really just given to you on a silver platter, but you also have to demonstrate that, yes, you have come to me.
Craig Pollard [00:29:48]:
I think I think the opposite is true. I love it.
Bessie Ndovi [00:29:51]:
This is also what, we are offering and we are saying we are going to do in this partnership. So the 2 contracts were signed. Of course, by the time that they were being signed, I had now transitioned into this new role.
Craig Pollard [00:30:04]:
Yeah. Of course.
Bessie Ndovi [00:30:05]:
But I was there from the beginning, the discussions, the writing, the back and forth, the due diligence, and everything else. And now, Sisona is implementing.
Craig Pollard [00:30:17]:
If you're enjoying this conversation and would like to hear other global perspectives on fundraising and leadership in the nonprofit sector, then please do subscribe using the links in the show notes. If you wanna find out more about our work, please do visit our website fundraisingradicals.com. Now back for the conversation.
Craig Pollard [00:30:40]:
And how big is, Sisona in terms of in terms of revenue now in annual budget from that tiny, tiny little organization that sort of broke away from Concern? How . . .
Bessie Ndovi [00:30:51]:
I think that's a difficult question to answer because the figures keep changing every year. But I think a good measure would be the number of staff that have grown over the years. I did mention that when I was there, when we were starting out in when I took over the Manta in 2020. 2017, we were only 3, myself, 1 program officer, and a finance person. So by and by, we started growing. There was a time, I think, we were 13. The time that we had 4 project projects running, we were 14 members of staff. 13, 14 members of staff. And then we closed out some projects, and some people had to be let go, and we were now 10.
Bessie Ndovi [00:31:35]:
So the time that I was leaving, we were 10 members of staff. But also to worth mentioning is the fact that when we were branching off from Concern, we had no vehicle at all. We had no vehicle. We had we had we didn't even have a printer. While Concern was gracious enough to give us some office furniture, the laptops that we were using, but we had no office printer. We had no well, we were pretty much basic. So over time, when I was leaving, we had 5 vehicles. We had, I think 3 printers, very big printers, and we had a very big a sizable office for for 10 people.
Craig Pollard [00:32:18]:
I've never I I've never heard nonprofit progress be measured in the number, and the size of printers that you have in the office, but it's such a it's such a visual it's such a brilliant visual that just like just just that the the the
Bessie Ndovi [00:32:30]:
Yeah. Because for me, it's it's appreciating the growth.
Craig Pollard [00:32:34]:
Of course.
Bessie Ndovi [00:32:16]:
Where where I'm come where I've come from and where I left things. So I really can't answer your question to say how in monetary terms can I measure, Sona? But No. We are we do okay. There was a time that we would would have maybe 600 dollars, $600,000 in a year. In some years, it would go down maybe to 300. And then, like, for, for the last 2, 3 years, we had 2 big grants. One from World Bank. They gave us, about $600,000 for 3 years.
Bessie Ndovi [00:33:10]:
And another one with USYD, they gave us about 700,000 for 5 years. So it's really hard to break it down.
Craig Pollard [00:33:20]:
Yeah. And but but the majority of it in is institutional. Do you have any do you have any local donors in there or regional donors apart from the the sort of foundation?
Bessie Ndovi [00:33:31]:
No. The donors are usually the same. I think it's the same across Africa. It's, I wish I'd use USAID, EU, the Germans, BNZ, JZ. And then we have embassies. Some embassies actually do fund, organizations depending on the kind of strategy that they have and also depending on the kind of focus the organization is also doing. But I think, you know, now the funding space is sort of shrinking, if I may say. Most donors most big donors are now opting to give out loans to governments as opposed to grants as they were in the past.
Bessie Ndovi [00:34:15]:
And the same is also affecting NGOs. This has been a concern that has been registered by the different countries that I coordinate, and it's really quite challenging. Unfortunately, for Malawi, and I'm showing also some African countries, we don't have a lot of wealthy organization wealthy people that are actually funding NGOs or interventions like that.
Craig Pollard [00:34:42]:
But there is a lot of wealth in Lilongwe. Yes. You know, it's very concentrated. There are wealthy individuals. There are there are a lot of corporates. There are a lot of, regional wealth as well. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:34:55]:
Mhmm.
Craig Pollard [00:34:55]:
But it's not connecting to the nonprofit sector. How how are the wealthy people in the long way contributing to to social justice work? Do they is there an interest in that?
Bessie Ndovi [00:35:09]:
It's a bit hard to say. But so far, what I have seen is that these wealthy people like to do corporate social responsibility. So for instance, last year, last rainy season, we had, we were hit with the tropical cyclone, Freddie. It was really bad. And that's where we saw a lot of rich people coming out and donating things and buying things and doing all sorts of things. We also have some wealthy people that would prefer to support sporting activities. So for example, you would hear x y z, mister ABC is now the new, sponsor for, a certain football club. Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:35:54]:
So for them and and usually the sponsors the sponsorship is in form of the the company that they own. They would be funding a particular for so for them, it's sort of advertisement.
Craig Pollard [00:36:04]:
Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:36:05]:
So they get more money like that.
Craig Pollard [00:36:06]:
Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:36:07]:
But we have also seen some worth of individuals donating things again in CSR. Say, oh, they have bought so many boxes of RITF or they have donated so many boxes of vitamin a or whatever. So it's usually like that. That's the kind of support that comes.
Craig Pollard [00:36:24]:
Sort of gifts, gifts in kind.
Bessie Ndovi [00:36:26]:
Yeah. I haven't really seen and, again, I speak from a lot. I haven't really seen, these worthy people actually supporting a particular, maybe NGO unless maybe if they own a particular NGO. But, again, that's not really something that's common in Malawi. But maybe this is something that we also haven't explored.
Craig Pollard [00:36:47]:
But but there's there's a responsibility to give back. Is is there also, there's a a real sense of of having to give back to the community that you sort of came from and a lot of calls on people's wealth when you become successful. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:37:03]:
Mhmm.
Craig Pollard [00:37:03]:
As a as a wealthy Malawian, I imagine, like, anywhere. I'm just interested in that, but also is there is is there a Diaspora, sort of flow of income from overseas into Malawi, sort of family members, communities, etcetera?
Bessie Ndovi [00:37:19]:
I don't think it exists, to be honest. Yes. Diaspora people in Diaspora, they they do support their families mostly, but not as communities unless if something has come up. Like, for example, this year, again, we have we have one district up north that that is currently flooded. So we have seen people similar to what happened last year. People in Diaspora or people that are wealthy, people that are have something to give, they would give. But in terms of giving back to community where they came from, No. But at at the same time, this is an area that's worth exploring maybe because I think it's also like it's it's it's sort of like a tradition to say NGOs are supposed to get money from donors only.
Bessie Ndovi [00:38:04]:
We wait for an open call for proposals and we respond, or maybe we talk to 2, 3 bigger INGOs to get funding, but we haven't really tapped this area. So CSONA, in 2019, we were responsible for establishing the scaling up nutrition business, network, the SUN business the SPN, one of the branches of the Sun movement. So we sort of had a talk. We started having these discussions to say, one of the key things that the SPN needs to do is to support, nutrition by supporting government directly or maybe by supporting, a few NGOs that are into nutrition. But that never really took off because we also we are also mindful that these businesses exist to make profits, and maybe they may not be so willing to pass away with their profits to be funding NGOs. But I think this is something that we need to explore. There were there was a talk at some point that maybe we should also consider introducing certain certain taxes, For example, for co companies that like Coca Cola Companies, we have we have some in Malawi, maybe put up a sugar tax. Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:39:25]:
Something like that. So that particular tax is the one to be funding these initiatives. But it's a very political thing, heavy political thing.
Craig Pollard [00:39:35]:
Of course. But when you've got when you were talk when you've got the the the sort of over the overnutrition, the sort of obesity, and the non related NCDs, the sort of there has to be a sort of a fiscal response to that because you currently just don't the country doesn't have the resources to manage that internally. Right? Actually, we don't. And Especially not on the health budget.
Bessie Ndovi [00:39:58]:
Mhmm. For Malawi, we really don't. And this is one of the areas where we are struggling. You go to a hospital for someone who is diabetic and do not find insulin, and they have to go to a private hospital, and they don't have money to buy it. So the, Zambia has sort of started that process of establishing that particular tax, SSB
Craig Pollard [00:40:21]:
Okay.
Bessie Ndovi [00:40:21]:
Taxation. But it's not yet implemented. They've just started out that process. So we are all eager to see and learn how that's going to materialize and how that's going to play out. And maybe we can use them as an example for the rest of Africa because it's not only in Malawi that has been hit with these, noncommunicable diseases and overweight and obesity. It's something that's has become a thing now, in this side of the world. So we are all looking forward to learning from how Zambia is going to do it, and maybe we can borrow a leaf and apply it and multiply and replicate it in several countries.
Craig Pollard [00:41:03]:
And I guess that's that's part of the power of the new of the of the movement as well. Right? It is this sort of this this learning and and I I you know, Vietnam, they're having the same conversations about the sugar tax in Vietnam as they are in in Zambia, and it's this incredibly important sort of network for learning and, you know, and that comes down to the fundraising as well. Right? Sharing experiences and that's what this is about Yes. As well. You know, you're you're incredibly modest about your fundraising achievements, Fessie, because I I know that these partnerships that you've built are are incredibly difficult and require such a such a determination and focus.
Bessie Ndovi [00:41:42]:
Yeah. It it wasn't easy, really.
Craig Pollard [00:41:44]:
It wasn't. That that's such an understatement. It's nearly impossible. I think for for a tiny organization of that size.
Bessie Ndovi [00:41:54]:
Well, I would say it's impossible because we've we've done it.
Craig Pollard [00:41:56]:
It's close to. It's nearly nearly impossible that I would say.
Bessie Ndovi [00:42:00]:
I've done it. So it's doable. It just needs persistence, dedication, and passion, I think. Yeah. So for me, I'm really passionate about nutrition. The reason I became an advocate okay. In the beginning, I really didn't know, and I think it was okay for me because I was like, oh, this is another job. But then as I got into it and, started seeing the change that was there, It now became a passion to say no.
Bessie Ndovi [00:42:29]:
I think much as government, yes, does puts in place all these policies, but that's all it does. Someone needs to be there to actually ensure that these policies are being implemented. We need to enforce that. Because if we don't, they'll just tick a box to say, we have this policy on nutrition. We have this policy on adolescent nutrition, or on infant and young child feeding, or on, whatever policies that are there. But I think we need to have someone who actually is there to provide the checks and balances to question government because you don't expect government to question itself. It's one entity. It's one machine.
Bessie Ndovi [00:43:04]:
You can't. It's there to do its part. We want to have policies in place, but who is there to monitor those policies? So for me, I am really passionate because I want to see a world where no child is manorished. I have been to these nutrition rehabilitation units. It's not a site that you'd want to be. You wouldn't want to see that. I have seen children that are wasted and near death. It's not pleasant.
Bessie Ndovi [00:43:32]:
So I would want to keep doing this. I do want to keep doing this because it moves me, and I think I'd be a happy person if I saw that we have drastically eradicated, or maybe not eradicated, but reduced my nutrition from the level that is there now to somewhere more desirable. Because we also have to acknowledge that maybe we may not manage to completely eliminate that, but at least let's bring it down. And how can we do that? So it needs to balance. 1 has to create the policies. 1 has to implement, and there has to be someone who is a watchdog between these 2, the implementers and the policy developers. So this is what I'm really passionate. And how how do you because you're moving from Malawi.
Craig Pollard [00:44:16]:
You're you're moving, you know, your role now as senior regional advisor is you you you know, Eastern Southern Africa. That's a big area. Yeah. It's huge. Right? So how, you know, how how are you feeling about that, you know, are you excited increasing your impact and and sort of regionally being able to bring your experiences to that group? What what are your hopes and and what are your priorities as well within that sort of regional piece?
Bessie Ndovi [00:44:44]:
So for me, having come into this role now, I realize that, most of the countries in my region, and not only in my region, even in West Africa, Western Central Africa, their challenges are the same. Most CSAs do not have funding. So what is a priority for me right now is to ensure that these CSAs are vibrant again. How do they become vibrant? They need to have funding. How do they get funding? So now I am in the process of trying to talk to them 1 by 1 and sort of imparting the knowledge I've had as, a coordinator for the CSA in Malawi. So I'm sharing my experience and the methodologies that I used when I was a coordinator for Malawi, applying it to the CSCs as well. But I also recognize that the context are different. The countries are different.
Bessie Ndovi [00:45:34]:
The political dynamics are also different. What works in Malawi may not really work in maybe Rwanda or in Ethiopia because the political context there is also different. But I I like to believe that if we maintain credibility, accountability, and transparent, and and if we network, and if we position ourselves to be seen that we can actually make this change, to be able to gain the trust of the stakeholders, I think we can do that. So my main priority for now is to ensure that the CSAs are organized, first of all, at country level. They need to start Already some of them are doing that, but they need to network and engage with their members more. I did mention that I think the the funding space is sort of changing at the moment. So how would we break within? How would we break through, that barrier to ensure that we sustain these alliances, and they're able to continue advocating for nutrition, able to provide checks and balances, coordinating nutrition, and monitoring policy implementation at that level. So I think we need to increase their networking, their visibility.
Bessie Ndovi [00:46:47]:
For those that do not have social media pages, they need to have them. For those that do not have, websites, very important for them to have them. And then we have also connected them to different technical expertise to strengthen them on the on the need that they, they will identify. So for example, I know that some of them have undergone your trainings, on, fundraising radicals. That's one way that we're also doing. We are we are trying to respond to this need to ensure that they possess those necessary skills to submit winning and effective proposals and to be seen within, their countries as tools for advocacy. To say, if you want something for nutrition to move, you need to contact a particular CSA in this country. If you want, for example, to make a change on budget, engage the parliamentarians.
Bessie Ndovi [00:47:43]:
How do you engage the parliamentarians? So documenting successes, because most of these have existed for as long as sun the sun movement has been in existence. So sun movement started in 2011. That's when the official launch was done. And most CSA's started around 2012, 2013, 2014 Yeah. Thereabouts. So they have done some work, tremendous work. Yeah. I did mention at the beginning that there isn't one size fits all for as long as fundraising and resource mobilization is concerned.
Bessie Ndovi [00:48:17]:
There isn't, you ,you will never find it. So I think having these real life examples is really worth sharing because you may find that a particular CSO is only focusing on waiting for a call for proposal, submit, and then they wait for feedback. And the feedback comes back negative and you are frustrated. I I've gone through it in as much as we I seem to be celebrating all these successes.
Craig Pollard [00:48:40]:
Yeah. Of course.
Bessie Ndovi [00:48:42]:
But trust me, I have had a lot of unsuccessful proposals. I've had those, and they're a lot.
Bessie Ndovi [00:48:48]:
I think they're even more than the number of winning proposals I've had. But I think it's important to all to be realistic. Do what you can. Be credible. Be visible. Share your work. Share the successes. Share the challenges.
Bessie Ndovi [00:49:04]:
Because I think donors or potential funders would also want to see how able are you to resolve certain challenges. Because you are defined by how you overcame a particular challenge. Are you the type that's going to fall back down and not rise up again because you made a particular hurdle, Or are you going to find your way around it and maneuver and come back up again? So these I think these examples need to be documented and shared. How have we done that? Some days ago, I was talking to Tanzania, the CSA in Tanzania, and we were sharing similar kind of conversations to say, how have they been able to sustain themselves up until now? So interestingly, Tanzania, the PANITA, Partnership For Nutrition in Tanzania, started their operations before the sun movement. So they're unique in that regard because they were not born out of the sun movement. Whilst the rest of, at least most of the CSAs I know, including CSONA and Malawi, and some of some of the countries I'm coordinating were born out of the Sun Movement. So listening to such kind of experiences and testimonies would actually propel someone to change their ways in how they have been conducting their resource mobilization activities and initiatives. So I think it's really important to really cast your net wider.
Bessie Ndovi [00:50:28]:
Don't limit yourself to one particular thing. But it's also good to have an action plan or a strategic plan. I can't remember who I was talking to the other time, but they were like, no. We don't want to have a strategic plan because now we are living in a world where, funding is a bit problematic. So we want to leave our space open. Whatever call comes, we need to be able to respond, but not to be limited to the strategic plan to say, oh, our strategic plan only focuses on these 5 areas. This proposal is proposing an area outside, so we can't respond. It gave me a bit of thoughts to say, okay.
Bessie Ndovi [00:51:06]:
They might have a point, but I think it's good to have a plan. Because once you have a plan, it also shows that you are organized, you're focused, you know what you're doing, and you're not swayed by what comes. So for them, it's working so far, but I think we'd really need to have even if it's just 1 year plan so that you're, you know, really limited, but it's important to have a strategic plan. So when someone comes to you, like, for example, the way the BH and Concern came to us, They would just come they they'll not you will not even be prepared. Can you show us your your plan? You need to have something to show and say, oh, yeah. This is what we're doing. But at least have something that you can show. To say, okay.
Bessie Ndovi [00:51:50]:
We're interested to find
Craig Pollard [00:51:51]:
Well, it's about building trust. Right?
Bessie Ndovi [00:51:53]:
Yes. Trust is important.
Craig Pollard [00:51:56]:
Yeah. It's about credibility and trust. Bessie, thank you so much. It's been really interesting. I'm I'm just imagining you just, like, just just remembering that and just enjoying printing out things and in colour and on a 3 and just, like, as an indication of how far you've come?
Bessie Ndovi [00:52:19]:
You know, sometimes I sit back, and I look at where I'm coming from and where I am now. I think it's been, it's been a journey, which I have enjoyed. It's been quite challenging, but, it's been worthwhile, really. I think I'll relieve this experience.
Craig Pollard [00:52:35]:
You say, you say it's been quite challenging. What are some of the biggest challenges and barriers that you've overcome to get where you are today?
Bessie Ndovi [00:52:45]:
I think the biggest challenge is that most donors I did mention that CSONA is, an advocacy institution. And, what I noticed is that most donors are a little bit adamant to fund advocacy activities because advocacy is a process that takes long. You may start at your advocacy now. But for you to realize the results, it may take 5, 10, 15 years. So most donors would want to see impact and results maybe in a year or maybe by the end of their funding period, which never really happens with advocacy. In advocacy, we celebrate those little wins. So one big challenge that I see, not only in Malawi, but I think across the board is before these advocacy institutions to get funding for advocacy. It's really a challenge.
Bessie Ndovi [00:53:43]:
And if you see most of your calls, for proposals that come out, you won't see many calls for advocacy. So what we have done is to position ourselves to tailor our proposals that they should respond to the call, but have a bigger element of advocacy in them. And also partnering with these other stakeholders holders that already have a component of implementation, but just build in something on advocacy in there. The other challenge that I have also encountered is at the beginning when we're just starting out, breaking away from from consumer rights. It was such a challenging time because we didn't have credibility. We were new with no history. All our history was with concern. So if you're submitting for a call for proposals or someone wants to give you funding, they would say, oh, can we have your holiday accounts for the previous year? And you don't have it.
Bessie Ndovi [00:54:43]:
And for them, it's a very big it's a big ask, and it's a big condition to give a particular organization funding. Because on due diligence, they have to check a box. And for you being a new, newly established organization, you don't have that. It became a a bit of a challenge. But still because it's not like we were starting from scratch. We had history, but only that it was embedded somewhere in consumer work. We still use that. And, what we emphasized on and focused on was that for that particular year, once the financial year ends, our priority is to have our own audited accounts so that we build that credibility and that trust from donors.
Bessie Ndovi [00:55:27]:
So I think these were the 2 main challenges that I met, especially as I was just starting out. But this issue on specific funding for advocacy, it still exists up until now. But we man we we we do manage. I mean, you can't really implement without any challenges, then it won't be worthwhile. Challenges are there to challenge you to do better.
Craig Pollard [00:55:52]:
Yeah. But then there's then there's fundraising for advocacy. It's kind of it's also one of the hardest things in the world to fundraise for. Right? It is. It's deeply political and donors don't want to upset governments, then it's like it it's hard to measure as you've said it.
Bessie Ndovi [00:56:08]:
Oh, and another another challenge is the advocacy itself. The advocacy itself. Because you're constantly in the face of government. You're constantly in the media. Government is supposed to do this, but it's not doing that. And sometimes you'd get calls from government. So what are you talking about? We're doing this. Can you please if any clarify what you're saying and tell them the truth? So if you're always in, what, confidential with government.
Craig Pollard [00:56:33]:
Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:56:33]:
So for us, we really tried to avoid the kind of confidential advocacy with government. So we'd continuously engage them to say, you're not doing this, you know, to enclose those. Very few times I've had to go out and say, oh, but government
Craig Pollard [00:56:56]:
But that in itself sort of puts at risk sort of your your ability to do your work as well as your sort of partnerships and who can associate with you. It's such a difficult line to tread. Yeah. I I'm in awe of anyone who can raise money for advocacy work, especially in somewhere like Malawi. It's so incredibly impressive. Yeah. Amazing.
Bessie Ndovi [00:57:20]:
Yeah. The important thing is . . .
Craig Pollard [00:57:21]:
My, my own fundraising seems so easy compared to yours.
Bessie Ndovi [00:57:25]:
I think it's because of the context. Yeah. The context is what really separates that. Even if you were here, you would adapt eventually to say, oh, this is how the Malawi set setup is like, and this is how I have to maneuver. But even though that was the case, but we really maintained a good relationship with government. There were times, of course, we'd be on each other's polls, but majority of the time, we were in good books. Because sometimes, they would even come to us, the the department we're working with, in government to say, we really want government or we want the minister of finance to fund a particular thing, but they won't listen to us because it's government government. Can you step in a civil society? So this is a kind of relationship that . . .
Craig Pollard [00:58:06]:
Yeah.
Bessie Ndovi [00:58:06]:
Yeah. I built with government. But that's not to say that we didn't have moments where we were cut and mouse. But you can't avoid it in advocacy, really, because at the end of the day, you want government to do something, but we also realize that government is very strange. Everyone is saying government is education wants money. Nutrition wants money. Hospitals want money. Infrastructure wants money.
Bessie Ndovi [00:58:28]:
It's the same government. So it's what is important is just to build a rapport. Find out what is the common factor that exists between the 2 of you so that you all work towards, achieving that. That's really important.
Craig Pollard [00:58:43]:
That's great. That's a great lesson on which to and thank you so much, Bessie. It's been really wonderful as always to talk to you and to hear your perspectives and and views on on on your fundraising and amazing. Just amazing.
Bessie Ndovi [00:58:56]:
Thank you.
Craig Pollard [00:58:56]:
Thank you so much.
Bessie Ndovi [00:58:57]:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Craig Pollard [00:58:59]:
It's an absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure.
Craig Pollard [00:59:02]:
Thanks to Bessie for joining the Fundraising Radicals podcast today. I hope you've enjoyed listening to this episode as much as I did making it. I'm gonna share more detailed reflections on this conversation with Bessie in the blog which can be accessed via the website at fundraisingradicals.com. For now I'm struck by a few big points from this conversation that we might want to spend a little bit more time considering. The importance of positioning, of being visible and discoverable. Then there's the dominance and decline of institutional funding on the operation and cultures of civil society organisations in Africa.
Craig Pollard [00:59:40]:
Institutional funding is so often the only viable option for civil society organisations in Africa and it shapes every aspect of their strategy resourcing and program design and delivery. I wonder how much space this loops for exploring alternative regional, national and local sources of income. Now I'm also left with a sense of the vast barriers that civil society organisations in Africa face when trying to prove themselves worthy to receive northern funding. The starting assumption of suspicion from northern institutions that is still grounded in colonial and white supremacist views of Africa and African civil society. These people who have committed their lives to improving the well-being of their communities. This mentality demands that small, under resourced organisations have to micromanage every part of their work and demonstrate excellence in communications, partnerships, governance, financial management before they even receive funding. At a standard, an expectation that is really difficult even for bigger and better resourced organizations to achieve. This is simply unfair and unjust Although it does potentially identify spaces for catalytic local and national funders to help civil society organisations to bridge this gap.
Craig Pollard [01:01:05]:
Anyway thanks for listening and for joining our continuing exploration of the global funding ecosystem.